Interesting take, Chrystal.  I'm glad you can speak for all of us.

Your organization certainly proposes working with all in the community to 
affect policy change.  How do you propose to sway policymakers while 
alienating all those who attempt to work towards the same goals but who you 
deem unworthy based on whatever it is you base your suppositions on.  Sounds 
to me like you have a history of picking the wrong partners.

Take Care,

Jamie
Jamie Maskill
[log in to unmask]
"Be the change that you want to see in the world"
    - Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)
"Giving advice is easier, but picking up a shovel works better"
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chrystal Ocean" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [SDOH] Brokering university knowledge to community agencies


>I too thought Linda's words were apropos.
>
> Over the course of the preceding conversation in this thread and the one
> "Brokering community knowledge to universities," a handful of posters have
> attempted to convey the position of the community action sector. We appear
> to have failed - although not for want of trying.
>
> This will be my last post on this issue. I'll be blunt, per Sandi's
> excellent example, and summarize the community position this way:
>
> 1) The vast majority of community-led groups have no interest in
> university-community alliances. This isn't about lack of respect for
> individual academics or for academics as a group. It's about our not 
> needing
> or being interested in what universities are offering.
> 2) The funding crunch is our only reason for considering U-C alliances.
> 3) In a previous post I wrote: "If the only way to get funding is for
> community groups to align themselves to a university, then some of us will
> consider that. In rare cases, such alliances have become as much
> partnerships as the program allows. Most of the time, however, the 
> community
> giveth, the university taketh, and there is an exchange of money." To put 
> it
> more bluntly, these 'partnerships' can and often do feel like 
> prostitution,
> where the universities are the johns, the community groups are the
> prostitutes and the 'brokers' are the pimps. Again, it's not about WHO the
> academic (or broker or university) is. It's about the nature of the
> relationship itself. Because of the need for money to survive, community
> groups are forced into something they don't want and, in fact, are 
> deterred
> from the work they would normally be doing.
>
> That I and a few other posters have failed in conveying this message is
> evident in the conversation either having been diverted or our message
> having been ignored. Diversions have come in the form of interrogating the
> style of the conversation or posters' mental models, rather than content.
> Evidence that the message has been ignored and our voices unheard is in 
> the
> ensuing discussion, which continues with the theme 'how to build U-C 
> alliances'.
>
> Academics, for whatever reason, want these alliances; therefore, they must
> be. It appears to be irrelevant that the majority of groups in the 
> community
> action sector don't want them.
>
> Ocean
>
> "Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
> --Mignon McLaughlin
>
>
> Chrystal Ocean, Coordinator
> http://www.wise-bc.org/
>
>
>
> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:21:24 -0400, GRETA DOUCET <[log in to unmask]> 
> wrote:
>
>>  Jamie,
>>  Funny, I was not offended whatsoever by what Linda said.  I felt it was
> very apropos.  Words, however raw they may seem to be, always have some
> truth to them.   We must search for the truth rather than feeling 
> offended.
> (It happens to me too).
>>  I am presently doing further studies as well as being involved in many
> community organisations and working on the front lines in nursing and
> community development.  People have asked me a number of times why I 
> choose
> to do this variety of things, rather than aiming for either academia or
> management.  I do not feel comfortable telling people things (Expertise) 
> or
> 'managing' them.
>>  Some of what you are talking about sounds like 'giving up on principles
> in order to publish,etcetera. That I cannot do.  I much prefer the
> opportunity to live in the trenches.  I'm more comfortable there. Of 
> course
> my financial resources are affected by this. However, I find I learn so 
> much
> from all my involvements.  I do love 'picking up the shovel',  Ultimately 
> I
> think we all aim to help.  'How we do it' is the issue.  I love the 
> thoughts
> you added by Mahatma Gandhi.  Have a great day!!   Greta
>
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