Hello all,
As someone who works in poor neighborhoods, I find the comments below
confusing.  Some of my ancestors were poor- their whole lives.  But I
definitely don't get the impression that anyone thought they chose
poverty.  Even when they may have fallen into the traps poverty sets and
exacerbates- like drinking and smoking and eating poorly.  They may have
had trouble getting work or having decent housing- but no one thought
they deserved this..  I see my ancestors in the work I do everyday.
Human beings living in resource poor environments can easily be wounded
in the process.  In fact, its resources that generally protect us from
being wounded.  

Would we take the argument below the other way?  Say, the rich who
"misbehave"- should we allow them to retain all of the wealth that has
been accumulated and ennable them?  Arguably they make choices too.  Why
should property law support their ways any more then public welfare
supports poor folks.  At least the poor folks can make the case that
being poor- having few resources- increases their vulnerability to the
hard things that happen to people...  

Ken Thompson
Pittsburgh

-----Original Message-----
From: Social Determinants of Health [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Keven Mosley-Koehler
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [SDOH] Reflections on child & family poverty

I disagree.  Many Americans feel entitled and by enabling them to
continue on their path by providing such entitlements, we only
contribute to their situation their feeling of entitlement. They have no
reason to help themselves...we are doing that for them.  While I believe
that everyone needs help and assistance at some point, it should be
geared towards helping them help themselves. Unfortunately this is often
not the case.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Raphael" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [SDOH] Reflections on child & family poverty


> Nobody actually chooses to live in poverty. Amazongly, 23% of
Americans
> appear to make this decision.  While only 2% of Danes choose to do so.
>
> dr
>
>
> Keven Mosley-Koehler <[log in to unmask]>@YORKU.CA> on 29/12/2006 
> 06:01:51
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to Social Determinants of Health <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by:    Social Determinants of Health <[log in to unmask]>
>
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> cc:
>
>
>
> Subject:    Re: [SDOH] Reflections on child & family poverty
>
>
>
> While dividing the poor into groups by age or whether mothers and
fathers
> are present does not make sense, there is another way to categorize
those
> in
> poverty....those who are choosing to be in poverty through their 
> behavioral
> choices and those who are doing all they can  to get out of poverty.
When
> viewed like this, it truly does become important to consider WHO is in
> poverty, because it guides approaches to help them help themselves to
get
> out.  It helps identify the contributing factors to their plight since
> there
> are so many yet which apply becomes quite individualized depending on
the
> person, their environment, their history, their attitude, their
education,
> etc.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chrystal Ocean" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [SDOH] Reflections on child & family poverty
>
>
>> I'm with Graeme on this issue, who argues against grouping people who
> live
>> in poverty into different categories.
>>
>> When this is done, there emerges a distinction between the deserving
and
>> undeserving poor, those whose poverty matters and, by stint of being
>> excluded or left uncategorized, those whose poverty doesn't - in
which
>> case,
>> it isn't POVERTY that becomes the issue but WHO is in poverty.
>>
>> Those in poverty all share something in common: poverty. What's the
point
>> of
>> dividing them into seniors, children, youth, 'families' (is a
household
> of
>> one a family?), unless it's to study them or separate the wheat from
the
>> chaff?
>>
>> The list in one post of the kinds of organizations that work with
> Campaign
>> 2000 (recent immigrants, people with disAbilities, Aboriginal people)
>> doesn't include organizations that only represent, say, people with
>> disAbility X or immigrants from country P or certain first nations
people
>> and not others.
>>
>> There may be circumstances in which it makes sense to divide a larger
>> group
>> of people into a smaller one, if the issue has to do with the people,
not
>> the systemically-caused conditions that they confront. The people who
> live
>> in poverty shouldn't be the focus; the systemic causes of poverty
should.
>>
>> Ocean, WISE Coordinator.
>> http://www.wise-bc.org/
>>
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