HI...have you read the chapter on abortion in the book
"Freakonomics"...it makes for a very interesting read following from
this discussion...b est,
david zakus
On 3-Oct-08, at 10:49 PM, Lynette Reid wrote:
> I think it is important for us to be able to articulate clearly why
> policies
> like this are problematic. When we think about weighing costs in
> healthcare,
> we can lose site of the perspective that spending money to support
> human
> life and, hopefully, flourishing, is basically what economies are for.
>
> Every living human being costs their families and the state (in some
> particular combination for each person) large sums of money at the
> beginning
> of life, and often, at the end. We pay for that person in our tax
> dollars
> when the state is heavily involved in their care; we pay for that
> person in
> the general structure of wages and price of goods (raising Paris
> Hilton cost
> everyone who has stayed in a Hilton hotel a certain amount of
> money), and by
> tax subsidies to families with children, when the family absorbs
> more of the
> cost. Any reality that stands behind the idea that some people "cost
> us"
> money and some don't is highly constructed by our particular economic
> system.
>
> In my view, any policy that encourages certain (kinds of) people not
> to be
> born is a statement that their life is worth less than other lives.
> It's a
> prediction that they won't be net contributors. And a valuation that
> being a
> net economic contributor is what we care about in human life.
>
> I think Melissa is right that such policies are coercive. The idea
> that a
> person's current addicted life situation is a good moment in which
> to make a
> permanent decision about fertility is bizarre. Paying someone to
> make a
> major medical decision at exactly the wrong moment in their life
> sounds
> coercive to me.
>
> -Lynette
>
> -------
> Lynette Reid, PhD
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Bioethics
> Dalhousie University
> 5849 University Ave.
> Halifax NS B3H 4H7
> 902-494-1842
> fax: 902-494-3865
> [log in to unmask]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Social Determinants of Health [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of
> Melissa Wieland
> Sent: October 1, 2008 3:08 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [SDOH] Social Determinants of Procreation??
>
> Granted, this woman is irresponsible, but shouldn't the focus be on
> counseling and providing this procedure at no cost to her, if she
> chooses?
> In this economy, particularly, there is no way to get around the
> fact that
> this proposed legislation is a cohersive tactic.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Social Determinants of Health [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
> Graham Vimpani
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 5:56 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [SDOH] Social Determinants of Procreation??
>
>
> what do you do when you are confronted by a woman who has a major
> drug and
> alcohol problem, and who has had 7 children already taken into state
> care?
> isn't there a case then for actually paying her not to have more
> children?
> especially when her children are already costing the state several
> million
> dollars per annum as a result of their need for care and their
> associated
> mental health and schooling problems?
> Graham
>
> Professor Graham Vimpani AM
> Clinical Chair
> Kaleidoscope in Greater Newcastle
> Hunter Children's Health Network
> Locked Bag 1
> Hunter Region Mail Centre
> NSW. 2310
> Australia
> Head of the Discipline of Paediatrics and Child Health
> University of Newcastle
>
> Phone +612 4921 3673
> Fax +612 4921 3599
> mobile 0408 484 427
> [log in to unmask]
>>>> Angeline Ferdinand <[log in to unmask]> 10/01/08 11:23 AM >>>
> I've seen a lot about this nonsense, and the conclusion I've come to
> is
> this:
>
> Yes, it's horrifying that there are people who think like this, and
> that
> there are people who will vote people who think like this into
> office. But
> the reality is, this is just some crackpot idea that a legislator
> has come
> up with. He hasn't actually proposed the legislation yet (as far as I
> know), and even if he did, there's not any chance of it passing. In
> short,
> I think that this is (yet another) opportunity to be all fired up and
> horrified about something that is ultimately fairly meaningless.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Michael MacDonald <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> SDOH Readers,
>>
>> I was amazed when I read this, so I thought I'd share with you all:
>>
>> http://www.wwltv.com/topstories/stories/wwl092408cblabruzzo.a931c79f.html
>>
>> This politician has actually proposed sterilization of women in
>> poverty,
>> and adds men as a side-note.
>>
>> Michael
>
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David Zakus, BSc MES MSc PhD
Director, Centre for International Health
Associate Professor, Dalla Lana School of Public Health
Associate Professor, Department of Health Policy, Management and
Evaulation
Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto, Canada
tel: +1 416-978-1458; fax: +1 416-946-7910
http://intlhealth.med.utoronto.ca
Immediate Past-President, Global Health Education Consortium (GHEC)
www.globalhealth-ec.org
-------------------
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