I too thought Linda's words were apropos.

Over the course of the preceding conversation in this thread and the one
"Brokering community knowledge to universities," a handful of posters have
attempted to convey the position of the community action sector. We appear
to have failed - although not for want of trying. 

This will be my last post on this issue. I'll be blunt, per Sandi's
excellent example, and summarize the community position this way: 

1) The vast majority of community-led groups have no interest in
university-community alliances. This isn't about lack of respect for
individual academics or for academics as a group. It's about our not needing
or being interested in what universities are offering. 
2) The funding crunch is our only reason for considering U-C alliances. 
3) In a previous post I wrote: "If the only way to get funding is for
community groups to align themselves to a university, then some of us will
consider that. In rare cases, such alliances have become as much
partnerships as the program allows. Most of the time, however, the community
giveth, the university taketh, and there is an exchange of money." To put it
more bluntly, these 'partnerships' can and often do feel like prostitution,
where the universities are the johns, the community groups are the
prostitutes and the 'brokers' are the pimps. Again, it's not about WHO the
academic (or broker or university) is. It's about the nature of the
relationship itself. Because of the need for money to survive, community
groups are forced into something they don't want and, in fact, are deterred
from the work they would normally be doing.

That I and a few other posters have failed in conveying this message is
evident in the conversation either having been diverted or our message
having been ignored. Diversions have come in the form of interrogating the
style of the conversation or posters' mental models, rather than content.
Evidence that the message has been ignored and our voices unheard is in the
ensuing discussion, which continues with the theme 'how to build U-C alliances'.

Academics, for whatever reason, want these alliances; therefore, they must
be. It appears to be irrelevant that the majority of groups in the community
action sector don't want them. 

Ocean

"Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
--Mignon McLaughlin


Chrystal Ocean, Coordinator
http://www.wise-bc.org/



On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 10:21:24 -0400, GRETA DOUCET <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>  Jamie,
>  Funny, I was not offended whatsoever by what Linda said.  I felt it was
very apropos.  Words, however raw they may seem to be, always have some
truth to them.   We must search for the truth rather than feeling offended.
 (It happens to me too).
>  I am presently doing further studies as well as being involved in many
community organisations and working on the front lines in nursing and
community development.  People have asked me a number of times why I choose
to do this variety of things, rather than aiming for either academia or
management.  I do not feel comfortable telling people things (Expertise) or
 'managing' them.
>  Some of what you are talking about sounds like 'giving up on principles
in order to publish,etcetera. That I cannot do.  I much prefer the
opportunity to live in the trenches.  I'm more comfortable there. Of course
my financial resources are affected by this. However, I find I learn so much
from all my involvements.  I do love 'picking up the shovel',  Ultimately I
think we all aim to help.  'How we do it' is the issue.  I love the thoughts
you added by Mahatma Gandhi.  Have a great day!!   Greta

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