I think that reena, greta and veli already partially answered your question. My
point is not denying the place of a production system in society but rather to
say that for humanity to survive and strive we need more than that. However,
these other forms of work and contributions are much more invisible and
sometimes are intangible too and therefore they don't get an economic value.

We may need an 'economic engine' to produce goods and wealth in society but we
also need (and are entitled to) a 'solidarity engine' to make sure that those
goods and wealth are redistributed and reach every member of the human family.

Paula Pinto


Quoting Bill Braun <[log in to unmask]>:

> Paula, would you expand on this? To frame my inquiry (and I do so to
> generously explore your point), suppose that 100% of the population
> required the "rights all human beings are entitled to"? On the surface
> this seems like an absurd question because it suggests that there is no
> economic engine as we now know it (inclusive of your criticisms below).
> What do you see as the economic engine that makes such support possible?
> Am I missing your point?
>
> Bill B.
>
> Paula Pinto wrote:
> > I agree with Dennis and Michael but I also think that we need to come up
> with an
> > expanded understanding of what contributing to society means. Often this
> notion
> > is only thought of in terms of a narrow conception of work, as it is casted
> > within the capitalist mode of production. If we as a society learn to value
> > other dimensions of  human existence and interdependency (emotional and
> > relational) and come to see them as equally important contributions, then
> we'll
> > find that those who, because of their age, disability or ill-health, cannot
> > "work", actually do contribute, in their own special way, to other people's
> > well-being and happiness, and in this sense they "work" for the betterment
> of
> > society.
> >
> > One consequence of looking at  "contribution" in this way is also that
> social
> > benefits from governments will no longer be seen as 'handouts' or charity,
> but
> > rather as rights all human beings are entitled to, just because of their
> human
> > condition and inherent dignity.
> >
> > Paula Pinto
> > PhD Candidate
> > Department of Sociology
> > York University
> > Toronto, Canada
> >
> > Graduate Diploma Candidate
> > Health Services and Policy Research
> > OTC/York University
> >
> >
> > Quoting "Pennock, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>:
> >
> >
> >> I agree with Dennis. In all of our theorizing about how the social
> >> determinants affect health, we are apt to forget that health status has
> >> powerful effect upon a persons earning and socializing ability. It's a two
> >> way street.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Social Determinants of Health [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
> >> Dennis Raphael
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 11:11 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [SDOH] Research results on intra-metropolitan health
> >> gradients
> >>
> >>
> >> getting "handouts" from government?
> >>
> >> How about "People whose life situations are so difficult -- due to
> illness,
> >> disability, or lack of employment opportunities -- that they require
> >> government assistance report especially poor health because these benefits
> >> are so meagre and they live lives of desperation?
> >>
> >> dr
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> GRETA DOUCET <[log in to unmask]>@YORKU.CA> on 05/07/2006 11:17:12 AM
> >>
> >> Please respond to Social Determinants of Health <[log in to unmask]>
> >>
> >> Sent by:    Social Determinants of Health <[log in to unmask]>
> >>
> >>
> >> To:    [log in to unmask]
> >> cc:
> >>
> >> Subject:    Re: [SDOH] Research results on intra-metropolitan health
> >>        gradients
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  Hi all,
> >> The italicized part  following seems to indicate that people are more
> >> healthy (and happy) if they are contributing by earning their salary doing
> >> work rather than getting handouts from government.  I find that to be very
> >> interesting.... and something to think about.  It makes sense to
> >> me.   Greta
> >>
> >> ie "The third project demonstrated that the type of income earned matters
> >> for individual-level health. Specifically, among those with lower incomes,
> >> individuals living in households where income was derived entirely from
> >> earned sources reported better health than those who receive some or
> >> all of their income through transfer payments, even after adjusting for a
> >> broad range of health determinants."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dennis Raphael <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >> RELEASE OF HPRP POLICY RESEARCH RESULTS
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Applied Research and Analysis Directorate is pleased to announce the
> >>
> >> release of the research results of the Health Policy Research Program
> >>
> >> project entitled Unpacking the Socioeconomic Health Gradient:  A Canadian
> >>
> >> Intra-Metropolitan Research Program by Dr. Nancy Ross of McGillUniversity.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The objective of this research was to gain a better understanding of
> >>
> >> intra-metropolitan health gradients and the relative importance of
> >>
> >> place-based factors (both economic and non-economic) on health status. The
> >>
> >> research was conducted over two years, and consisted of three interrelated
> >>
> >> projects.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The first project sought to identify patterns of health, disability, and
> >>
> >> mortality by income gradients within metropolitan areas in Canada. The
> >>
> >> second project examined the role of neighbourhood income in accounting for
> >>
> >> patterns of health in urban Canadaand the independent effects of a broader
> >>
> >> set of social and economic neighbourhood characteristics.  The third
> >>
> >> project examined individual health status in relation to the kind of
> income
> >>
> >> that individuals receive.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The results of the first project indicated that the socioeconomic
> gradients
> >>
> >> are not consistent, but rather vary in steepness by gender, outcome, and
> by
> >>
> >> urban context.  The second project demonstrated that neighbourhoods have a
> >>
> >> greater influence on individuals' behaviour than on actual health
> outcomes.
> >>
> >> The third project demonstrated that the type of income earned matters for
> >>
> >> individual-level health. Specifically, among those with lower incomes,
> >>
> >> individuals living in households where income was derived entirely from
> >>
> >> earned sources reported better health than those who receive some or all
> of
> >>
> >> their income through transfer payments, even after adjusting for a broad
> >>
> >> range of health determinants.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Here is the link to the Summary:
> >>
> >> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/sr-sr/finance/hprp-prpms/final/2005-ross_e.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Health Canada's Health Policy Research Program (HPRP) was created in 2001
> >>
> >> to fund health policy research of a medium to long-term nature.  The
> >>
> >> research results from the first projects that were funded have been
> >>
> >> completed.  The Research Management and Dissemination Division (RMDD) of
> >>
> >> the Applied Research and Analysis Directorate (ARAD) is releasing the
> >>
> >> Summaries of the research results as they become available.
> >>
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