Let's remember tha many drugs come from herbs and
what we now call "alternative medicines. Aspirin,
for example, orginated from willow bark,
digitalis from fox glove. SS
-----Original Message-----
From: Carlyn Volume
[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 6:46 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Needing Proof for Natural Products
I am writing in response to the string of emails
that have been placed on
this list serve of late. Traditionally a lurker,
I felt prompted to reply
to what I perceive as the defensiveness of those
promoting herbal medicines.
In response to Mr Tedesco's assertion that there
were few (any?)
researcher's looking at the efficacy of herbals I
conducted a 5 minute
search of the MEDLINE (1996-1999 publications)
database using keywords of
"herbals" and "efficacy". In that search I
brought up 14 English articles
and several foreign articles examining the
efficacy of herbal medications.
(I am sure that I would have found more had I
broadened the time period and
topic of my search)
For example, 1) phytotherapy (Permixon) vs.
finasteride in the treatment of
benign prostatic
hyperplasia
2) milk thistle shown to have
use in tx of toxic hepatitis
etc.
3) phytotherapy for dermatologic
conditions
4) St, john's wort for
depression and gingko for dementia
5) 4 herbs(Geum japonicum,
Syzygium aromaticum, Terminalia
chebula & Rhus javanica)
in vitro and in vivo(mice
model) found to be promising for the
prophylaxis
of cytomegalovirus (CMV) in immunocompromised
patients
Anecdotally, the dentist across the hall from our
research office is doing a
head to head comparison of ibuprofen vs
glucosamine in the treatment of TMJ
and I have also heard that there is a head to
head comparison between
sertraline (Zoloft) and St. John's wort for de
pression in the works
Despite the concerns voiced by some our
colleagues, it appears that some
health care professionals and researchers are at
least exploring the
possibility of "alternative medicines". I think
a more important issue is
for health care professionals to ensure that
their clients are equipped with
the necessary knowledge to assist them in making
their treatment decisions.
Perhaps both the "medical" side and the
"alternative" side should be more
tolerant of eachother and realize that NONE of us
have all the answers.
Carlyn I. Volume, B.Sc. Pharm., M.Sc. (Health
Promotion)
PhD Candidate
Faculty of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences
University of Alberta
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Tedesco [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 7:13 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Needing Proof for Natural Products
<<<I think the issue involves questions of how to
decipher complex systems
of
<<<interaction and causality, which have
conventional (medical
<<<research/experimental) answers but still
warrant investigation. The
latter
<<<I don't feel I've seen anywhere yet.
I have no idea of what "complex systems" you are
talking about. But if
you're talking about extensive clinical trial
proof for herbal product
efficacy, you aren't likely to see it in your
lifetime, sir. I respect the
fact that your mind functions in such a way that
you need scientific proof.
Our system in the U.S. is not geared to give you
the kind of proof you want
for herbal product efficacy. That's just the way
it is. There's just too
much money behind those who would snicker at the
natural and promote,
rather, chemicals as a first choice option---an
option that often makes the
symptom disappear while masking the underlying
problem.
--
Charles Tedesco The Stop Smoking Coach
Smoking Release Associates
call (760) 631-8222 Individual, Couples and
Group Coaching plus
Do-It-
Yourself Cessation Systems.
Want Personal Coaching to Stop Smoking? Ask
about our free consultation.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Edwards <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Needing Proof for Natural Products
>Sorry, "the efficacy of natural remedies is
proven in their successful use
>over time..." begs the question of what is
success and how it's known.
>People have done all kinds of things over time,
which may or may not say
>anything about their efficacy per se.
Pharmaceutical company funding of
>research may well be a problem, but that again
is separate from the
question
>of how to know something works.
>
>I think the issue involves questions of how to
decipher complex systems of
>interaction and causality, which have
conventional (medical
>research/experimental) answers but still warrant
investigation. The latter
>I don't feel I've seen anywhere yet.
>
>Rick
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Tedesco <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 3:49 PM
>Subject: Re: Needing Proof for Natural Products
>
>
>>The challenge with research on natural products
is that there is no
>economic
>>incentive for a maker to do the research:
natural products cannot be
>>patented. Yet, a pharmaceutical company can
take a leaf or root, tweak
the
>>chemical structure in a laboratory to turn the
natural product into an
>>unnatural one, then patent this product and
thereby prevent other
companies
>>from competing with it. This is how the vast
majority of today's
>>drugs--prescription and non-prescription--are
made: from natural
>substances.
>>The efficacy of natural remedies is proven in
their successful use by
>people
>>over time. And only people who are willing to
do a little of their own
>>research---and , having cleared that hurdle,
are willing to then trust
>their
>>intuitive sense--will then benefit from their
use. The "medical model" as
>>it is used in this country has to do with only
logic and numbers and
>>clinical trials that somebody has to pay for.
>>The challenge in shifting to a form of
healthcare that would incorporate
>the
>>best of both East and West will mean a
willingness to look at what has
>>historically been proven to work. And it will
also mean an increased
>>willingness to see the areas in which Western
medicine has utterly failed.
>>--
>>Charles Tedesco The Stop Smoking Coach
Smoking Release Associates
>>call (760) 631-8222 Individual, Couples and
Group Coaching plus
>>
Do-It-Y
ourself Cessation Systems.
>>Want Personal Coaching to Stop Smoking? Ask
about our free consultation.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rick Edwards
<[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 8:24 AM
>>
>>
>>>Surely there must be a question about whether
flower remedies etc.
"work".
>>>It's not just 'medical model' to want evidence
of effectiveness, despite
>>the
>>>fact that notions of evidence are dominated by
approaches common in
>>>mainstream medical research. I'm open to
alternatives, but how can I
know
>>>that they're effective? Otherwise I'm
vulnerable to snake oil salesmen.
>>>How about some informed discussion about
research appropriate to
>>alternative
>>>approaches?
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: jaymach <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 6:48 AM
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Todd
>>>>Bach Flower remedies were discovered be
Dr.Edward Bach in England in
>>>>1920's.He proposed a theory of Heal Thyself
wherein he stated that if we
>>>>have a correct mental attitude we can
maintain an excellent health.I
>>>believe
>>>>that there are many books on this therapy.
These flower extracts are made
>>>>from common non poisonus flowers and are
absolutely safe and without any
>>>>side effects.You may visit www.bachcentre.com
for additional details.
>>>>sanjay
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Todd E. Finnerty
<[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 1:02 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>At 10:17 PM 9/14/99 +0530, you wrote:
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: Sasha Claire McInnes
<[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>Date: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 10:04 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I really must get off this list - would
the owners please unsub me?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It is very dispiriting, alarming and
enraging to wake up every
morning
>>>to
>>>>>>>all the medical-model stuff you folks are
promoting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>I agree with Mary Pat, in the context in
which she responded, and
>>>believe
>>>>>>>that what Sanjay is promoting can be felt
or viewed, by some, as
blame
>>>>the
>>>>>>>victim. I'm not however, convinced that
this is what he meant to do
>>and
>>>>>>>believe Mary Pat might have misunderstood
where he was going with
this
>>>>>>>"wellness" model.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>What I hear Sanjay saying is that there
are alternatives to the
>medical
>>>>>>>model and that we would do well to explore
them. I am in support of
>>>this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>sure- if this is what hes saying.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mary Pat mentions "schizophrenia" in the
same context as aids,
>implying
>>>>>>>that it is a *medical* problem. Scratch
the surface of the majority
>of
>>>>>>>individuals with this label and you'll
find a history of abuse. To
>>>>>>>pathologize and medicalize individuals
labelled thus is, in my view,
>>>more
>>>>>>>blame the victim and not an ethical
approach to treatment for those
>>>>who've
>>>>>>>endured abuse. Of course, it's an easy
"fix" and very lucrative for
>>>>>>>psychiatrists and drug companies and if we
continue down this road,
>>>>>>>governments will - as in the case in the
US - pay only for treatment
>if
>>>>it
>>>>>>>includes drugs. Do we want to go *there*?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Well... that and treatment for schizophrenia
is a lot more effective
>when
>>>>>you use drugs, often helping to return them
to a much more "normal"
>state
>>>>>of functioning. While rallying against the
"medical model" you commit a
>>>>>cartesian dualism separating the mind and
body; nature and nurture. We
>>all
>>>>>know that its much more popular now to talk
about interactions.
>Likewise,
>>>>>I'm sure the majority of individuals on this
list aren't interested in
a
>>>>>debate regarding the origins of
schizophrenia, but I'd be wary of any
>>>>>individuals claiming that it takes x number
of generations to make a
>>>>>schizophrenic, or any single factor like
abuse plays such an
>>all-important
>>>>>role, etc...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is in reply to sasha's message
>>>>>>As you correctly envisaged I am not for
blaming the victim .What I
>would
>>>>>>like to say is that self help is the best
help and if flower remedies
>>>give
>>>>>>us stimulus for change why not.It is also
true that ultimate health
>>>>>>responsibility lies with individual but
after he is absolved of mental
>>>>>>agonies which can be done by flower
remedies.After this would come the
>>>>state
>>>>>>of consciously changing mental attitude
without medicines.
>>>>>>sanjay .
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Sanjay, what exactly are these
consciousness-altering, mental agony
>>>>>absolving "Flower Remedies" you speak of?
Can they be imported legally?
>>Is
>>>>>it prozac? *smirk* Can you explain what you
mean by this a little more
>>for
>>>>>the folks at home? Would you "prescribe"
these for any one with any
>>>>>illness, for instance, and infant with aids?
>>>>>======================================
>>>>>Todd E. Finnerty
>>>>>810 W. Mt. Vernon Apt. A
>>>>>Springfield, MO 65806
>>>>>(417) 865-0818
>>>>>ICQ#: 18369023
>>>>>http://members.tripod.com/~tfinnerty
>>>>>======================================
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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