----------------- HES POSTING ----------------- Patrick, Your argument does not respond to the case where what is being defended against is a nuclear attack that would lead to the destruction of all life on earth. It is not possible to exclude anybody from that. Saying that starting such a war is irrational will not do. We have all seen the movies "Fail Safe" and "Dr. Strangelove," and "War Games," and know that accidents can happen as long as there are sufficiently large nuclear arsenals out there, which there still are unfortunately. Barkley Rosser ------------ FOOTER TO HES POSTING ------------ For information, send the message "info HES" to [log in to unmask]