----------------- HES POSTING ----------------- Jeff argues that population growth was the first mover in creating the Industrial Revolution. In contrast, Salaman [Salaman, Redcliffe N. 1949. The History and Social Influence of the Potato (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press).] makes the case that it was the potato. I could just as well propose that it was the breakdown in social relations that led to the first burst of population growth. As a point of clarification, I did not suggest, nor do I believe that permitted accumulation caused the Industrial Revolution; so, Jeff's post does not contradict anything that I had written. I will not reply to most of Tony's latest note since it merely repeats what he has written before. My answers would then merely echo the previous responses. He believes that the classical political economists would not or could not let ideological concerns shape their writings. Tony, who has not read my book, is probably not aware that, while they did not discuss the Game Laws directly, they did frequently express concern with shaping the labor force in the countryside. Perhaps the most blatant example of Ricardo, who wrote about the problem of cheap food in Ireland, which allowed workers to resist participating in the waged-labor force. Instead, he asserts as a matter of faith that they were purely scientific in their endeavors. Tony make one new point, which he again asserts as a matter of faith: "The basic point is very simple -- a reduction in agricultural productivity would not increase the supply of wage labour by forcing people out of agriculture but reduce it by reducing output and marketed surplus and hence the ability to support the workforce." I would argue that what Tony denies as a possibility happened repeatedly throughout the colonial world, as well as in Britain during the period under discussion. Tony would be logically correct under certain restrictive conditions -- but they just did not hold at the time. Michael Perelman ------------ FOOTER TO HES POSTING ------------ For information, send the message "info HES" to [log in to unmask]