----------------- HES POSTING ----------------- [Moderator: I've almost started new threads several times during this discussion, but I haven't seen a clear break in the flow. With this post, I think the conversation is so far removed from the original, that I am starting a new thread. You are always welcome, when you post a message to the list, to change the Subject line to indicate a new topic. Also, if you received double postings of a recent Scott Cullen message, I apologize. I don't know why the list software hiccups like that. HB] In answer to Robin's comment ("Economics advanced when it was generally admitted that utility was subjective"): In my view it depends on what you mean by "advanced". In a logical sense, yes that is all true, but if you want to conduct policy, some type of interpersonal comparisons are necessary, which means that values play a role in all policy discussions, and that we have to make sense of utility as something more. Cooter and Rapaport in the JEL argued for a materialist welfare intepretation. Pigou integrated some of the material welfare judgements into his "welfare economics" which he called realistic economics--which he distinguished from the science of economics. Robbins said that Pigou's work wasn't science, which it wasn't, but it was one way to do policy. The attempt to do economic policy without interpersonal comparisons led economics into a sterile welfare economics. We are still trying to get out of it. Dave Colander ------------ FOOTER TO HES POSTING ------------ For information, send the message "info HES" to [log in to unmask]