Camy,
It's hard to find "funny" in a situation like this, but here are two MT
quotes I like that may be appropriate:
"Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your
dog would go in." (biography)
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not
bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
(Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar)
By the way, how did your costume party go and what "knock 'em dead"
line did you use?
JV
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 22:02:58 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Publisher, Edwin Mellen Press
In-Reply-To: <455624E6.13311.2787770@localhost>
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hi,
I highly suggest that they DO NOT go with
Black Forest press!
I did and it was a BIG mistake!
Altho I was able to sell all the printed copies
I paid for on my own. :)
I never received any royalities and the book was
not printed as to my specifications and
was a big dissappointment in other ways.
Thanks :)
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:48:49 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tom Swenson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cheer me up!
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Hi Camy-
That is so sad to hear. We lost our sheltie last summer, and we still think
of him daily and talk of him often. So I can identify with part of your
loss.
The part where he was almost literally part of you, I can only imagine.
Twain loved pets. In fact, on his travels he would sometimes rent cats to
keep him company.
My wife and I grieve with you.
Love and Best Regards,
Tom Swenson
(Tom as Mark Twain)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:38:19 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: David H Fears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Errors in Powers' Biography
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Mark Twain: A Life by Ron Powers
Sometimes when I hit errors in a book I want to hurl it across the room.
Then I realize that the author is human, and to err is human and to hurl
is,
well, that's about the only thing critics are good for. Hurling, or making
us
hurl.
If I wasn't on this multi-year effort to compile a day-by-day reference
book
of Sam's life, I probably wouldn't have caught the errors in the first half
of Ron Powers' book. The first error I snagged my eye on was taken for a
typo--then I found 3 others, and I'm just past halfway. I'll list these and
offer a few thoughts on Ron's writing. Opinion of course.
Page 192 "...promptly at 7:30 p.m. Monday, May 7, 1867, slouched onto the
Cooper Union stage, a Lincoln of literature in chrysalis." - CORRECTION:
The
date was Monday, May 6th.
Page 238 "On June 17, Sam reported to Bliss that "the book is finished, & I
think it will do...." CORRECTION: The date of this letter was Tuesday, June
23rd, 1868, as his own footnote shows for this quote, from MTL v.2 p232
Page 278 "Before a full house of 2,600 on November 11..."
The date of Sam's Boston lecture was the 10th, not the 11th. On the 11th he
lectured in Charleston, Mass. (MTL v3.p390-1 and many other sources)
Page 360 "On September 21...the Clemenses took possession of their Nook
Farm
house at last." The correct date is Sunday, Sept. 20th, given in letters
of the same day to Howells and supposed cousin Emma Parish. (MTL v.6
p233-7)
I realize these are simple date errors, and may not mean much to anyone.
Still, they surprised me, though I'm anticipating a veritible volume of
errata
on my own work, once published. Many error demons hide out, you see,
cloaking
themselves from sharp-eyed editors and other fools.
A word about the style and quality of writing in Powers' book: It's
fine--hi-falootin' as Sam might say, and goes in for a bit of hyperbole
here and
there, luffing the jib and filling the scuppers with goo. Still, It's a far
better work than Hoffman's "Inventing Mark Twain," I'd say, simply because
it
eschews a lot of judgment leaps about motivations and causes.
There are things I see things that grate--this may be due to my several
million words written and even more read about fiction and other such
literary
fixings. First, the use of all the present-day comparisons from the "Grand
Ole
Opry" to "Madonna" or references to later writers and trends--these tend to
wear thin. These sorts of uses, in time, work against the credibility of a
book because they can date the work. Worse, such references lend the
narration
a rather glib tone here and there, and yank the reader back into the
present,
just when the reader's "fictive dream" is peeking over Sam's shoulder. I
should compile a list of these, but if you've read the book, you know what
I
mean, and if you haven't, now you're alerted for them. One reviewer claimed
that we finally had a bio of Clemens that rivaled his use of language--I
really
had to hurl on that one. Sam may have lusted after eastern respectability,
but he didn't succumb to what he'd call "puppyism" of the Bret Harte sort.
Powers' writing in spots feels elitist, even snobbish.
For example, in describing Adah Isaacs Menken, the famous risque stage
performer, Powers (page 135) wrote that Menken was "what a later, jazzier
age
would call the Red-Hot Mama....the spiritual godmother of Marilyn Monroe,
Gypsy
Rose Lee, and Madonna." Perhaps I resent reading a book on Clemens and
being
force-fed images of Madonna or other moderns. Call me picky, but it's a
ploy
that doesn't work for me. Hindsight can crush a good biography. Still this
work escapes partly.
But let me not be too critical. I believe this is one of the top 2 or 3
bios
available. I still like Paine--even with all the inaccuracies and glaring
omissions, the multi-volume work of Paine exudes an honest love for the
man,
and is a pretty good read for a work of 1912.
And to Mark Perry, author of "Grant and Twain," one small but substantive
correction. Sam did NOT meet Livy in Elmira, and though the exact date is
disputable, most would agree he met her in New York City, probably at the
St.
Nicholas Hotel.
(P. 41 "In 1868, Twain met Olivia Langdon--'Livy'--the sister of a friend,
in Elmira, New York.")
Give me a break. I hate sloppy work like that.
David H Fears
WIP: Mark Twain Day-By-Day
projected pub. date: Sept 2007
Still, the writing overall is good, if a bit overblown. But somehow I think
Sam would hate it.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:41:49 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gregg Camfield <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Errors in Powers' Biography
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David,
How, pray tell, do you see references to Madonna in florid middle-brow
prose as elitist? Powers is a television journalist, not William
Buckley.
And since he's a television journalist, doesn't this explain his
inaccuracies? For a journalist, he's stunningly accurate. After all,
from this distance, what difference does a day make? Let's see, for the
error on page 278, an error of one day is approximately 0.002 percent of
the total elapsed time since then (for anyone checking my work, don't
forget to add a day for each leap year--I ignored the leap seconds that
we've experienced since the invention of the atomic clock--which was
wise considering I rounded up to the nearest 1/1000th of a per cent for
dramatic impact). I'd love to see any other TV journalist approach that
kind of accuracy.
GC
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:38:25 +0100
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: camy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Does it really matter?
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Dear Good Twain Scholars:
In no way on God's green earth do I mean to verbally attack anyone, but
do these slight inaccuracies really matter? While in writing a
biography, one should strive to get the facts correct, I personally
wouldn't lose any sleep if my biographer were off by a day or a week,
but I would be upset if something slanderous were written about me.
Again good sir/man, I mean absolutely no offense.
CAmy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:55:17 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: tdempsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregg on Errors in Powers' Biography
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Gregg, I think you are being intelektualy lazy. It is the awthur's dooty
to catch misteaks. I know that Twain never made none in his works. Our
local shcool uses "Life on the Mississippi" as a geography text it is so
good and acurate.
I think a good riter also uses only refrences to important classical
sourses. I'm with Fears that compairing Twain to people that ordinary
people might understand -- not literairy people like us smart peple on this
list understand -- is bad. I would have been happyer if Powerses' book only
referd to people like the English greats Chaucer, Sheakspeare, and Spencer
or to Romans like Cicero, Virgil, and Liver. I think this is a reflexion of
the cultural decline our nation is experiancing and why there are so many
alliens living here and why I want them all to go home except for Maria who
cleans my house on thursdays and Juan who cuts the grass and all the people
who work in my cousin Leroys restaurant in St. Louis and that is what is
really wrong with the Powers book.
Please quit being such a whiner, Gregg. You better spend some time going
over the books you have wrote. I know for a fack that you used a colon one
time when a proper writer like Mr. Fears would have used a small intestine.
Terrell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:45:31 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Larry Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Gregg on Errors in Powers' Biography
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On the subject of errors, Twain would have lectured in Charlestown,
Massachusetts [site of Bunker and Breeds Hills] after a lecture in Boston on
the preceding day. Charleston is in South Carolina, not Massachusetts.
LH
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:12:16 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Errors in Powers' Biography
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I find that
most of these errors are on the part of the editor and
printer. I have had this problem with the book I publilshed
last year. I had it correct in the text and 'they' take
it and toss it over their head like the cats in Twain's stories and
send it back to the writer. I sent back the corrections from their
inablity to print it correctly the first time and they could
not be bothered with correcting them.
Yes it is a problem that the books being published are not 100% perfect
It's because no one cares in the process of it, not like over 50 years
ago when people published and it was an 'art form' and people liked
their jobs and had respect for it.
Personally I make the corrections in the book and a note as to where
the
correct 'primary source' is for this correct info and go on.
thanks,
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:50:17 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Horn Jason <[log in to unmask]>
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Well, errors could matter. After all, scholarship is built on trust and
faith in the work of other scholars. A group of minor errors could
lead to other errors and so on until much greater inaccuracies spring
forth as truth. One could be off by a day, the next a week, then a
month, or carry an inaccuracy into the next year. Then events overlap
or collide and claims of accuracy refer back to differing writers with
various dates and facts.
I believe pointing out errors to be a scholarly duty and welcome
this service from anyone. The reviewer, in this case, was kind enough
to praise the work in other ways while still noting some factual errors.
Jason
Jason G. Horn, Ph.D
Professor of English
Humanities, Gordon College
Barnesville, GA 30204
Corpus Mens Spiritus
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:03:22 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: David H Fears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Does it really matter?
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Exactly. While I enjoyed the whimsy of the "Borat-like" letter one of our
members posted, I believe Jason makes the point I was clumsily trying to
make.
Please understand that my WIP is involved with pinning down dates,
reconciling between various sources and authorities. So, yes, to me it does
matter,
and, as Jason points out "errors could matter." By no means is my list of
errors
comprehensive--I'd estimate that there are 10-12 such errors in the book of
600 pages. Who cares if an event is off by a day or two (atomic clocks
aside)? I suppose careful scholars do.
Jason also makes the point that such errors erode credibility in the work,
that we aren't sure if there are substantive errors as well. I agree.
As for the Madonna/Metallica references--I understand this is a purely
stylistic technique, but stand by the principle that using these as
liberally as
Powers does risks weakening the historical view. Many of these are one
generations icons which may date the work in a few years. For me, they yank
me from
the historical narrative, jar my understanding rather than enlighten it.
Was
Adah Mencken truly a Madonna of her time? A red-hot momma? Or, was she more
in that Bohemian school of thought and style that Sam Clemens swam in for a
time? Analogies can help understanding--but they also risk an intellectual
mud-wrestling contest, where the reader gives up on the work. My
perspective is
from a novelist as well as a historian's point of view, as one who has
taught
college English composition--so I realize others may disagree and find such
parallels helpful. To each his own.
There are some wonderful passages in Powers' book. Then too there are some
that made me shake my head. As for blaming the errors on printers and
editors, well, that's easy, but the author gets proofs, right? Sam himself
was
mortified at the errors that found publication in his first book, The
Jumping
Frog, because he did not examine proofs, a lapse he swore never to repeat.
Journalism is the reason Powers work comes up short? Sam Clemens cut his
teeth as a journalist. I'm sure he would hee-haw at the idea of using
journalism
as an explanation or excuse for such mistakes.
I am fully aware of the beam in my eye. As Sam would say, being human is
enough to know about a man--nothing could be worse. Presenting a work of
this
stature error-free of fact may indeed be an ideal, but it is an ideal
worthy to
aspire to.
David H Fears
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:21:09 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Ballard, Terry Prof." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Errors in Powers' Biography
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Actually, typos have always been with us. Thanks to the magic of the
database JSTOR, which publishes complete runs of journals online, I
found and verified the existence of the term "Smithsonian Insitution" in
the April 1895 issue of The American Naturalist. I've made something of
a study of typos, since they occasionally end up in library online
catalogs - the ultimate disgrace.
Terry Ballard, Automation Librarian
Quinnipiac University
Hamden, CT
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:10:23 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gregg Camfield <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Does it really matter?
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Well, now that I've been accused of being a sloppy scholar for the
second time on this forum, I think I'd best defend my defense of
Powers's biography directly, rather than indirectly.
Powers's book is NOT a scholarly biography. He didn't intend it to be
a scholarly biography. I heard him at Elmira say he intended the book
to engage, from a distance, America's current culture of political
antagonism. (Clearly his book is not a verbal icon, so I'm not worried
about committing the "intentional fallacy.") Whether or not Twain is a
fit vehicle for that agenda is worth debating, but minor errors of fact
are irrelevant. Paying attention to irrelevancies is called, in folk
wisdom, missing the forest for the trees.
I, too, teach freshman composition, and one of the things I teach is
that it is best to judge a piece of writing by the genre it inhabits.
Can you imagine grading poems such as Williams's "The Red Wheelbarrow"
or Pound's "Cantos" by the standards of, say, the clear discursive prose
promulgated in Freshman English? I can see the comments: "William, Your
thesis is not clear, and the development is inadequate. F." "Ezra,
These allusions show tremendous research, but you MUST CITE YOUR
SOURCES. Unless you submit a revised draft with full citations (MLA
style), I will not record your grade. I hope you appreciate my
flexibility; many teachers would fail this essay and refer you to the
Dean of Student Affairs for plagiarism. And your diction leaves much to
be desired. Use standard English, but if you must quote foreign words
and phrases, provide translations, unless they are defined in the
_Webster's Collegiate Dictionary_ I assigned. Moreover, your diction is
inappropriately inconsistent. Beginning Canto I with the slang 'hang it
all' only to use words like 'naviform' disrupts a consistent tone. C."
Judging the world through a scholar's eyes may be fun, but it sure cuts
one off from most of human experience.
Thank goodness for Terrell's lovely sense of humor. And long live
Liver, my second favorite Greek after Seneca Falls.
Gregg
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:32:34 +0000
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Martin D. Zehr" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Errors in Powers' Biography
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I certainly agree with Jules that many of the errors can be attributed to
editorial slips. As an example, Powers makes a reference to Keokuk being in
"southwestern Iowa," an error that no one, myself included, could conclude
was the product of his pen, or word-processor. Most dates might have
negligible importance, in the context of a 600-page work, but they are
nonetheless worth noting, in service of a "scholarly duty," as Jason Horn
notes. In one chapter, Powers makes a reference to all the important events
occurring in 1895, presaging the modern era, including the publication of
Freud's "The Interpretation of Dreams." Actually, "Dreams" didn't make its
appearance, which went largely unnoticed, until 1900, a fact which does not
seriously undermine the point Powers was making.
I had what I considered the great privilege of interviewing Ron Powers in
Elmira in August, 2005 for a review of his book which appeared the next
month in the Kansas City Star. In the course of the interview I made a
reference to both the above errors and, while little time was spent in the
discussion, I do recall that he was concerned that they had slipped through
the net, so to speak. On the other hand, I should note, it was my opinion
then, as it is now, that Powers' biography is the finest attempt at a
comprehensive look at its subject since Paine, and the fact that us
carrion-pickers can find mistakes would never deter me from recommending it
unhesitatingly to anyone attempting to get a grip on the source of our
eternal, infernal ruminations and explorations.
Martin Zehr
Kansas City, Missouri
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:40:44 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: David H Fears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Does it really matter?
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To Gregg and other posters:
I offer a few final thoughts on these issues with good intention and
goodwill towards all posters here. I didn't intend to stir a dust devil
with my
error points on Powers' book. For all I know, lurking behind that snowy
beard is
a gem of a man, kind to children, puppies, and librarians. But it's not
Powers the man I wrote of, but his historical work of biography, and a good
work
it is, overall. Allow me to repeat, a good work, overall. I absolutely
loved
his prior work on Sam's youth, "Dangerous Water." It filled an important
place in scholarship and understanding of Clemens.
A biography is inherently "scholarly." This does not mean it is dry,
unreadable or in any way having less literary or entertainment value.
Readability
and scholarship are not mutually exclusive, after all.
But, scholarly or not, entertaining or not, it is either accurate or not,
which was my only point. If Powers wanted to write a work of historical
fiction, then pointing out errors would indeed be focusing on the bark of
an
imaginary tree in a fairyland forest.
I see nothing in the book itself as to this "agenda" you say the man had in
writing a biography. Where is it in the work? If he had such an intent, I'd
think it would shine out from an introduction. It tickles my wonder why he
would have such an "agenda" with such a work. But they say ignorance is
bliss,
which may explain why I'm so damned happy.
So, I hardly think the need for accuracy has to be questioned when it comes
to a biography. This may be some Marxist-Postmodernist plot I'm unaware of,
some slipstream of Derrida, or one of those salon top ten-ers. Leeway is
allowed for memoir, although, not so much as to write fiction (Jason who?)
And,
this isn't chemistry, where 2 parts per million of a substance makes it
"pretty
pure." TV journalism or not, it's either historically accurate or it falls
short. I was appalled at the errors in Ken Burns' treatment of Clemens.
Should
we just call such stuff "good enough for government work"?
Are correct dates really a minor issue? Each will furnish his own answer. I
won't burden you with repeating mine. I may be a wild idealist, believing
that history requires accuracy of available facts. Those facts unavailable
can
certainly be aimed at, guessed, or ignored--such is the fun of piecing
together a historical record. With Sam's life, we have Paine, Wecter, Hill,
Branch,
Smith, and a cast of hundreds (if not thousands) who have gone before and
spent their life juices researching these facts so that an accurate record
will
emerge. Why not at least check the facts before a major biography is
printed?
Why say that in today's world we're simply too busy for such checking? Why
be lazy? And if you want to compare Sam to Metalica or Captain Kirk, well,
that's simply style points, for or against depending on the taste buds, and
a
separate issue.
Forgive me, Gregg, but I don't understand the agenda you ascribe to
Powers--
a desire to "engage" America's so-called "current culture of political
antagonism"? You could have fooled me--I thought it was a biography of Sam
Clemens. Forgive my blindness and be kind enough to enlighten an old
history buff.
I purely missed the politics. Could be I blocked those out with all the
recent campaign ads.
From my study of American history, there's always been a rich tradition of
political antagonism, from Washington being accused of desiring a throne,
to
Lincoln suffering the most despicable insults, to Clinton's cigar and the
ever-popular Bush-bashing. Such is politics.
I wonder though, if what you say really was Powers' aim, why he chose Sam's
life to pursue it? Though Sam uttered many things about politics, and even
had a few stints connected to government (Nevada and Washington), he wasn't
in
any real way a political animal, and detested the corruption he saw in
American politics. My guess is that several might step up to argue Sam was
indeed a
political animal and I concede this is so to a point.
So, forgive me, but you've lost me with all that. And I failed to see any
personal criticism of you or anyone here, either. Of course, every venue
has
it's own sordid history, and I'm a rather new bird on the perch who hasn't
examined closely the droppings that splatter below.
David H Fears
PS. As far as grading poetry, my position would pretty much be with Sam's
opinion of poetry, though I'm told there *are* certain conventions that
make
"good" poetry. Your analogy fails on its face; poetry is not biography, is
not
prose, is not a rose on your toes.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:05:53 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Horn Jason <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Does it really matter?
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This is all quite confusing; what the devil did Powers intend for the
book. Are you saying that Powers is being politically antagonistic while
writing popular biography of some kind, or is he trying to engage
political antagonists? Is his book part and parcel to some political
cause? And why would one want to engage an antagonistic culture using
Twain as a front?
Right on with Freshman composition. But how would we explain
the genre of this biography to Freshman. What genre is it, for heaven's
sake?
And how many minor facts are irrelevant--a half dozen, a dozen, or
?
Jason G. Horn
Gordon College
Barnesville, GA 30204
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:07:16 +0000
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Comments: RFC822 error: <W> MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence
was retained.
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I am doing research about Mark Twain's humor transalting Huck Finn. My
analysis looks at the difficult aspect relating to the translation of humor
in his works. (slang dialect...)
Could you help me showing example or have you got dissertations about that
argument. Please if you want to cantact me this is my telephone number (ok
dinner hour) I live in Italy. This information is really important!!!!
Sabrina 0039055819538
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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:12:04 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: tdempsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Does it really matter?
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Since I've actually known Ron Powers for a decade, can I offer a little
speculation as to his intentions? Ron is a professional writer. I expect
his main intention was to make some money. He made a boatload off of Flags
of Our Fathers. Like every other writer, he wants people to actually read
what he writes. Like everyone who is on this list, he fancies himself a bit
of a Twain. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. He is a complex
person. He grew up in Hannibal and has a natural affinity to Twain. You
cannot live here without being irradiated by Twain. Lastly, and I apologize
for the utilitarian nature of this analysis, but Vicki and I think his
editors asked him to do it.
P.S. to David: "Borat-like"? You bitchslap Powers for popular cultural
references then all you can come up with is the present number-one movie at
the box office by an MTV comedian? Even a sophomore engineering student
could have come up with Swiftian. As my mother used to holler down the
basement in 1970, "You kids quit smoking that stuff. It'll make you crazy."
Terrell
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:09:34 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Larry Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
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I've often wondered about the difficulty, if not impossibility, of
translating not just humor but vernacular language in general. I've had
international students who love the works of Twain from first encountering
it in their native languages, who are deeply perplexed when they read it in
my courses in the original.
As has been long recognized, there are subtle and not so subtle differences
between speakers, and conveying those in a different language medium are
beyond me. How, for example, does one signal the difference between Pap and
the Duke? The problem of working with black dialect is even more thorny.
Black vernacular speech has been a challenge even for American writers,
regardless of color. Given that, how would one begin to translate Jim's
story about his daughter? So much of the pathos of that account comes
through his vernacular language.
A corollary might be the Quebec French dialect of joual. When English
translators approached these texts they opted to use a kind of Scottish
dialect because it represented a similar distance from standard British
English as joual does to standard French. I'm not entirely happy with the
result, and I'm suspicious about framing Jim's speech as Italian peasant
dialect if one were to translate _HF_ into Italian (though I suppose his
language might be cast in Sicilian vernacular, whereas Tom Sawyer could be
rendered in some other provincial idiom). The politics of verancular in
American language seem far more complex than that choice would be able to
represent.
The discussion that Shelley Fishkin initiated more than a decade ago about
Huck's speech as derived from black dialect involved some of the same
issues. I'm wondering what others who've thought about this problem have to
say about what the implications for translation are.
Larry Howe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:20:02 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: David H Fears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Does it really matter?
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You might want to read that post again. The reference to Borat was clearly
not aimed at either Powers nor Twain, but at the poster who put up the
humorous post rife with misspellings, ridiculing the idea of historical
accuracy.
Since that post and my comment on it were clearly dealing with present
takes,
the Borat reference was of the same mind.
But, thanks for your close reading. I need a whip on my backside about
hypocrisy, that naturally ingrained aspect of humanity which creates so
much fun.
DF
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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:22:24 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: David H Fears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
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I'd say the ultimate answer for vernacular translation is to leave it in
English and challenge the reader to learn it. Glib, I suppose, but some
things
simply don't translate across language barriers. They must be swallowed
whole.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 14:08:42 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jim Zwick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Fernando Romeu's short study of Spanish and Catalan translations of
Huckleberry Finn has been online for years:
The Translation of American Varieties in Mark Twain's Adventures of
Huckleberry Finn
http://www.tinet.org/~fromeu/hucktrans.htm
He now teaches English but I think he did this while he was a student.
While looking up that article, I also found a reference to this one in the
Journal of Sociolinguistics:
Raphael Berthele. "Translating African-American Vernacular English into
German: The Problem of 'Jim' in Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn."
Journal of Sociolinguistics 4:4 (Nov. 2000): 588-613. Abstract: Focuses
on the most important problem translators are faced with when
translating Mark Twain's "Huckleberry Finn" into German: how can the
speech of The African-American Jim be rendered? Examines both
orthographic and other linguistic strategies that have been used to
differentiate Jim's voice over the last hundred years.
Jim Zwick
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:59:10 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Larry Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
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Thanks to Jim Zwick for his references to to Romeu and Barthele. Although
this is not an issue that I typically focus on, the original query triggered
my memory of discussions with international students about the translation
problem. Jim's suggestions will prove useful. Anybody thinking about
translation might want to look at Twain's own translation of the "Jumping
Frog" story into French and his re-translation of it back into English. The
results are hilarious and instructive.
Larry Howe
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:57:53 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Horn Jason <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
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On translating dialect:
The words of both Huck and Jim, it seems to me, are fictional
constructions. Twain carefully crafted the dialect, that is, which may
or may not accurately reflect any particular language. As a literary
artist, Twain plays off a recognizable vernacular calling our attention
to unusual sounds and syntax in order to move us toward a meaningful
engagement with his story and characters.
Jim's fictional dialect and Huck's are Twain's creations. Huck's
speech may be derived in part from Black dialect but Twain's imaginative
reconstruction of such speech muddies attempts at understanding its
effective meaning.
We may want to remember that what we translate will always be a
fictional dialect, with words placed and chosen for sound and effect as
well as for accuracy. But I may be giving Twain to much credit here as
literary artist.
Jason G. Horn
Gordon College
Barnesville, GA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:17:30 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ben Wise <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Does it really matter?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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To DF,
As someone who hasn't smoked anything for a long time, I just wanted
to say that, to the detoxified reader, it was clear that Terrell was
indeed aware that your "Borat-like" attribution was aimed at his
post, and not at Powers or Twain. However, I must agree with
Terrell's modest disclaimer that "Swiftian" might be something only a
relatively unread sophomore engineering student might come up with to
characterize his masterpiece (and hilarious masterpiece it was; don't
get me wrong!). "Mr. Dooleyian" might be a closer match. But then I
never did study engineering.
Ben
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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:13:44 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gregg Camfield <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Larry,
You might also want to look at _Mark Twain in Japan:The Cultural
Reception of an American Icon_, by Tsuyoshi Ishihara (U of Missouri P).
He makes interesting points about how deliberate mistranslation can make
a book work in varied political and cultural contexts.
Gregg
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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:31:31 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Larry Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
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Thanks, Greg. I knew I could count on the group to suggest useful stuff on
the topic.
LH
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 05:46:47 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: doug bridges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Professor Horn's remark about "muddies attempts...effective meaning" seems
muddied itself. What is he saying?
Beyond that, please, all list members, let's keep our discourse elevated
above such vernacular as "bitchslap" -- a term recently used by a
respondent. I can curse or cuss in several languages, and I know Down South
backwoods terms that I use now and then with pals, but this Twain List venue
does not seem an appropriate place for that level of discourse. Of course
this is an informal venue, but why make it coarse? There are too many places
already that trash the language and assault one's soul.
Whether you agree or disagree with my suggestion, I hope this email does
not result in a thousand responses on the list. Who needs to read them? If
you want to respond to me personally and save the list members the storm, I
am at [log in to unmask]
And thanks to all who have contributed substance to our list over the
years. Dbrid47
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:05:03 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: tdempsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bitchslap
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That pesky English with its literal quicksand of words! You are right, we
need to take a firm stand. Why should we have to keep revising the OED? I
believe the first OED came out in 1927. I propose that our learned
moderator censor all messages. Any word not contained in the original OED
should be blacked out. Let's appoint Doug arbeiter of language purity.
Perhaps you keepers of the English language can follow the example of our
fellows in France and Spain and form an academy to police language purity.
Obviously, we need to be particularly concerned about words that
originate from foreign sources or from lower socio-economic classes and
races from whence came the offending word at issue.
All power to the correct people!
Terrell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:57:16 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: doug bridges <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bitchslap
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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If you read my email, you should realize that I am asking for
self-monitoring of use of diction. I said nothing about a censor or
gatekeeper. Your over-reaction suggests otherwise.
Self-censorship is nothing that we do not do all the time. You do not
refer to females as bitches (I hope) unless you are out with a couple of
buddies remembering your latest divorce or separtion, or some such event.
Did our hero Twain ever use in print low-class diction except in the voice
of characters defined by such? We all know that Twain loved, defended, and
used profanity, but I do not think he used it or other slang
inappropriately.
Oh yeah, I believe the word is "arbiter" unless you are intentionally
crossing it with the good old German "arbeit" as in "mach frei." If so,
that is creative, and just the stuff we want to see on this forum.
Cheers. Doug
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:00:30 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Larry Howe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bitchslap
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Terrell--
The appropriate arbiter of good taste for this forum is undoubtedly the
Concord Public Library. Their history with regards to _HF_ has established
their impeccable credentials.
LH
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:59:44 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Horn Jason <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: info oabout transalting humor in Mark Twain
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Doug,
You are right. Now that I read my lines again, I am not quite
sure what I was trying to say. I think I meant to say simply that when
we discuss Twain's use of dialect, we need to remember, for what it may
be worth, that it is a fictional dialect and not a literal presentation
of speech.
Clarifyingly yours,
Jason G. Horn
Gordon College
Barnesville,
GA=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:21:08 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hal Bush <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bitchslap
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-version: 1.0
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This week I have been teaching Life on the Mississippi. Mark Twain
certainly delights in the vernacular in that book. He admires one
steamboatman, for example, for the sublimity of his profane speech.
I guess this must seem obvious, but isn't it ironic that we are quibbling
over a slang word (granted, one that is indeed possibly offensive to some)
on a list devoted to one of America's pioneers in the use and admiration of
such language??
Hmmm?
Harold K. Bush
Saint Louis University
St. Louis, MO
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:15:50 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jim Zwick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bitchslap
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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On 16 Nov 2006 at 10:21, Hal Bush wrote:
> isn't it ironic that we are quibbling over a slang word (granted,
> one that is indeed possibly offensive to some)...
I do find the word offensive. What does it mean? It is used in phrases
like "I'll bitchslap some sense into you," which means in proper English,
"I'll beat you like I would beat a woman until you agree with me." When
Terrell used the word, did he mean to trivialize violence against women
by using it in a discussion of written abuse? Or did he just adopt it as a
hip word, implying in the process that violence against women is hip?
Maybe he didn't mean either, in which case he shouldn't have used that
word.
Many people seem to use that word without thinking about what it
means. Similarly, people casually say "this sucks," "that sucks," "he
sucks," "she sucks" or "you suck." But what do they suck? If it was
spelled out, that wouldn't be used so frequently. Bitchslap is different
because you cannot say the word without conveying the full meaning,
whether intended or not. It reminds me of Chinese characters, most of
which are made up of two images, one on the left and one on the right,
that combine to form a word with a complex meaning. In this case, the
word is a combination of "derogatory word for woman" and "strike with
an open fist." The word might be used less frequently if people had to
draw that out as a pictograph.
Jim Zwick
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:15:43 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jerry Vorpahl <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bitchslap
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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The subject term is used in the current issue of FORTUNE Magazine (P.
156, presented as two words), so perhaps it has entered the lingua
franca of business writing. Had it been coined at the time, I'm sure MT
wouldn't have hesitated to employ it, although it probably wouldn't
have passed the scrutiny of Livy. (Had she seen "1601" before he showed
it to Twitchell, we wouldn't know about it to this today.) Twain had
as many sagacious comments about strong language as he did about strong
drink. My favorite: "Profanity provides a relief denied even to
prayer."
JV
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:29:14 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Bitchslap
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Fellow Twaniacs --
While we're seesawing over matters of accuracy, Sacha Baron Cohen's "Da
Ali G Show" is/was on HBO, not MTV.
And one of the reasons I'm still happy NOT to be a copy editor for a
woefully mediocre newspaper anymore is because the level of nitpicking was
deranged. Precious time near deadline was used looking up middle initials,
changing
"kid" to "youth," "like" to "such as" and "over" to "more than."
I liked Powers' bio a lot. With any undertaking so massive there are
bound to be mistakes. Cut him some slack, please.
And Powers isn't a "TV journalist." His roots are, like (oops! as were!)
Sam's, in newspapers.
In conclusion — and worth pondering — is Sam's mentor from "Life on
the
Mississippi," who would interject foul language into his declamations of
Shakespeare while trying to navigate. I thought it a hilarious when I was
12.
Forty-two years later, the passages still make me laugh.
Surely Sam himself wasn't always accurate, yanno.
I rest my case.
Kathy O'Connell
still at liberty
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:39:55 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jim Zwick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bitchslap
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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I received a question about the meaning of bitchslap offlist and thought
I'd respond onlist in case others might be interested. I tried to trace the
origin of the word a couple of years ago after noticing that it was being
used very casually on TV -- in late-night talk shows, and even by CNN
anchors. I remembered it from the debates about misogyny in rap music
and was surprised that one of the words that created outrage then was
now part of casual banter.
As far as I could tell, bitchslap began as a word for a form of violence
between a pimp and a prostitute designed not to cause bruises so the
prostitute could continue to work. There is also a use where it means the
opposite -- a pimp's use of a whip-like weapon made to scar the woman
and force her out of the business. In either use, it is a special and
intentional way of hitting a woman. It was often used in depictions of
violence against women in rap music, which is how it became widely
known. It has since been used very casually but I think its underlying
meaning is obvious within the word itself. Even when used for when a
woman is doing the slapping, it is her assertiveness that makes it a
"bitchslap."
The earliest use in a book I could find using Amazon.com's full-text
search is in "8 Ball Chicks" (1998), a book about female gangs by
journalist Gini Sikes. She quotes one of her informants saying, "guys still
shoot a female in a flash -- it's called a 'bitch slap.'" In "Shagadelically
Speaking: The Words and World of Austin Powers," published the
following year, "bitchslapping" is defined as "misogynistic term for
physical abuse popularized in gangsta rap music and seen frequently in
daytime TV talk-show melees" (where domestic violence is televised). It
has obviously become more popular since then. In its various forms,
bitch slap, bitch-slap or bitchslap, it can be found in many books
published from 2004 to 2006. I'm sure today's cool word will become
passe, but I think it's an unusually unfortunate word to be getting glib
use, or even to be given pop culture status. For example,
Hollywoodbitchslap.com is a popular movie review site. What are they
saying, that violence against women is just a bad review?
I'm not in favor of censoring music, web sites, or discussions in which
that word is used, but I do think people who use it should be aware of
the meanings they convey. It's like someone seeing Chris Rock on HBO
and naively going around the next day greeting everyone they see with
"Hey N-----!" In this case, white people in the suburbs think a word that
has specific meanings in urban areas is cute, and are naively talking
about "mysogynistic physical abuse" or casually shooting women in a
flash. It's not the cute word people seem to think it is.
Jim Zwick
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:43:46 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: tdempsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The real etymology of Bitchslap
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Jim, I suspect the word is actually far older than you surmise. While
enjoying my nightly pipe of opium, mixing my Forum reading with my nightly
dose of Lewis Caroll, I encountered the following use of the word
"bitchslap."
"'I don't know what you mean by "bitchslap,'" Alice said. Humpty Dumpty
smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't- till I tell you. I meant
"there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'" 'But 'bitchslap' doesn't mean
"a nice knock-down argument,'" Alice objected. 'When I use a word,' Humpty
Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to
mean- neither more nor less.' 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you
can make words mean so many different things.' 'The question is,' said
Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master- that's all.' (Lewis Carroll, Through
the Looking-Glass, Chapter 6.)
Oh, my. Things get curiouser and curiouser. Now I'm a misogynist. I
think I'll take a little sip of this bottle that says "Drink Me."
Terrell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:09:12 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: john evans <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sucking eggs
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In _Tom Sawyer_, Chapter One, the new boy tells Tom: "You can lump
that hat if you don't like it. I dare you to knock it off -- and
anybody that'll take a dare will suck eggs." In the case of modern
usage of the word (especially on television), I naively hope that the
characters are talking about eggs, and I suspect that script writers
dance around the censors using that argument even though we all know
better. I have heard the expression "Don't teach your grandmother to
suck eggs," meaning, that you are being presumptuous in teaching an
older and more experienced person something that they already know.
In this case, sucking eggs refers to the removal of the yolk and
albumin from the egg by sucking (or blowing) it out of a small hole
in the end of the egg. Twain's use of the phrase "suck eggs" (or more
accurately, the new boy's use of the phrase) is meant to be an
insult. What I would like to know is this: what makes sucking eggs so
derogatory? I believe the expression "Don't teach your grandmother to
suck eggs" has its origins in Germany. That brings this issue close
to the question of translating humor. Was something lost in
translation? Just wondering.
John Evans
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:18:09 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ben Wise <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bitchslap
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Jim,
This is one of the most intelligent and responsible postings I've
seen on this list in a long time, and certainly on this particular
thread, and I thank you for the thought and effort you put into it.
It redeems my interest in the list, which was beginning to wane in
the wake of previous postings which were, let's just say, not so
intelligent or responsible.
Ben
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:31:17 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: David H Fears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The real etymology of Bitchslap
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Au contraire my friend Terrell, Lewis did but purloin after perusing
Aristotle's "Interpretation," so that the term is much, much older than you
surmise,
with or without your hallucinogenic crutch:
As there are in the mind thoughts which do not involve truth or falsity,
and
also those which must be either true or false, so it is in speech. For
truth
and falsity imply combination and separation. Nouns and verbs, provided
nothing is added, are like thoughts without combination or separation;
'man' and
'white', as isolated terms, are not yet either true or false. In proof of
this, consider the word 'goat-stag.' It has significance, but there is no
truth
or falsity about it, unless 'is' or 'is not' is added, either in the
present
or in some other tense. Likewise the word 'bitch-slap', often used by those
swarthy Estruscan sailors who claim to have first discovered syphilis. It
is
simple combination and separation, this light of truth and shade of
falsity.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:58:49 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: tdempsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Addict's Lament
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The Addict's Lament on Aristotle
I didn't mean to make such a fuss, man
When this blather on bitchslap first began
Off my keyboard it soared
Then Doug and Jim roared
Dave's right, don't blame me, it's Etruscan
Terrell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:41:43 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: "J.Dean" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sucking eggs
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My assumption has always been that it was a derogatory comment alluding
to "egg suckin' dogs". When there were chickens everywhere, and the
eggs were used for food and trade, no one wanted to have a dog around
that would get in the hen house and suck, or eat eggs. The dog was
considered worthless, and I suppose the same would apply to a person
who would "suck eggs".
Jerry
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:28:29 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Scott Holmes <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sucking eggs
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And don't forget about Smeagol (Gollum) teaching his grandmother how to
suck eggs. This is found in The Hobbit, Riddles in the Dark.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:37:48 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dr. Regina Faden" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Mark Twain Museum
Subject: Law Journal
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Artifact Presentation to Highlight Mark Twain Birthday Celebration
This year's community Mark Twain Birthday Celebration will be held on
Saturday, December 2nd from 1 - 5p.m. Events throughout the day promise a
fun afternoon for the whole family.
A special highlight of the day will be the presentation of a very important
piece of history to the museum. At 2:30 Mr. and Mrs. Frank Salter, of
Hannibal, will present the museum with a law ledger owned by Mark Twain's
father, John Marshall Clemens.
Very little is known about John M. Clemens. For many years he has been an
elusive figure. According to his son he was a well-respected man in
Hannibal, a stern father, and failed business man. But Sam Clemens never
described his father in any detail and what little we know is gleaned from
Twain's works and contemporary accounts. There are also very few physical
artifacts that can offer some clue to understanding Twain's father. No
photographs of him are known to exist. Now, thanks to Frank Salter, the
museum and scholars around the world have a newly uncovered source to help
us fill in the sketchy outline of this man.
Salter unknowingly purchased the ledger at a public city auction. After
buying a box of old law books, he discovered the ledger had been buried in
the box as well. Fortunately, he knew the value of the book and saved it
from being lost to history. The Salter family is now going to present the
book to the museum for preservation and display purposes.
The book has already been cited in academic books and is a unique glimpse
into Hannibal's past. The book records cases the Judge Clemens heard, as
well as his rulings. Some of the entries are even in Clemens' own hand.
This is an exciting addition to the museum, and we hope you can join us for
this special presentation at 2:30 on Saturday, December 2nd in the Museum
Gallery Auditorium.
Regina Faden, Ph.D.
Executive Director
Mark Twain Boyhood Home & Museum
120 North Main Street
Hannibal, MO 63401
p. 573 221-9010
f. 573 221-7975
[log in to unmask]
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 09:21:04 +0100
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: camy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Twain as a teacher
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Dear Group:
How effective do you think Mark Twain would have been as a teacher? It =
would have been a fascinating experience to have had him instructing =
Huck Finn.
Camy
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 09:19:40 +0100
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: camy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breakfast with TWain
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Dear Group:
If memory serves me correctly, didn't Twain enjoy large breakfasts? =
Unfortunately, like most of you, I don't have a biography in which to =
research this.
Thank you.
CAmy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 16:06:37 -0700
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Alan Eliasen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Twain as a teacher
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I don't know if Twain would have been comfortable teaching *about*
his own works. (And who would?) After all, the preface to Huck Finn
says, "Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be
prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished;
persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot."
However, I think that he was quite adept at finding good ways to
teach and remember facts. For example, his story "How to Make History
Dates Stick," available at
http://www.twainquotes.com/HistoryDates/HistoryDates.html
discusses some techniques that he used to help himself remember the
sections of his speeches, using a few sentences, which he had a hard
time remembering, and later changed to be a few drawings, which helped
him remember effortlessly. He said, of the drawings, "That was a
quarter of a century ago; the lecture vanished out of my head more than
twenty years ago, but I would rewrite it from the pictures--for they
remain."
This is similar to the techniques used by many modern "memory
experts" to build a series of images in their mind that would help them
remember more easily.
The rest of the article talks about how he helped his daughters learn
the dates of the reigns of British monarchs. He laid out a series of
signs along his road at "the farm" (Quarry?). The length of each
stretch showed the length of the reign of each monarch, with one foot
indicating a year, with drawings and colors on each sign to represent
the monarch.
I'm reminded of psychologist A. R. Luria's fascinating book, "The
Mind of a Mnemonist," in which he describes a memory expert with the
rare condition of "synaesthesia", for whom a word or sound would not
only trigger an auditory response, but due to some interesting wiring in
the brain, would tend to trigger repeatable smells, and sights, and
feels, and shapes. The patient used this ability, and worked at other
memory techniques, to build a "story" around things he was trying to
remember and developed a prodigious ability to remember series of words
or numbers even many years after being presented them for the first time.
Twain would probably be an interesting and inventive teacher.
Alan Eliasen
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 20:07:20 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: David H Fears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Twain as a teacher
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Well, let's see...
Sam never could teach Orion to be a success at much of anything.
He never taught his mother to spell, or to be consistent on her choice of
writing paper.
He never taught brother Henry to lie.
He couldn't seem to teach John T. Raymond how to properly portray Colonel
Mayberry Sellers in the Gilded Age stage play.
And he couldn't seem to teach wet-nurse No. 5 to stay out of his beer
supply.
On the other hand, Sam did teach some of his pet cats a few tricks, the
ones
he took to Quarles' farm every summer as a boy.
He sure taught Pilot Brown a lesson--never to call his brother a liar.
He taught his father-in-law that a man doesn't need formal character
references to marry his daughter.
He taught his lecture agent, James Redpath, the power of persistence, and
the truism that once a lecturer, always a lecturer.
He taught Dan De Quille (William Wright) how to write a successful book
(The
Big Bonanza).
With a smartly applied switch, he taught Susy not to throw tantrums.
He did teach his daughters to remember famous dates and persons.
And most important, Sam did teach Livy to have a beer every evening.
David H Fears
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 15:19:26 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gerald Stone <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Breakfast with TWain
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi Camy–
I don't have the source available this weekend, but I recall a letter to
Livy
from London in the 1870's where he recommends a breakfast tonic he'd been
taking that had pepped him up considerably, consisting of whiskey, sugar,
and
lemon juice, which he called a cock-tail.
It reminds me of the probably apocryphal story of Lincoln being told that
Grant was a heavy drinker and saying, "Then find out what he drinks, and
send
a case to my other generals."
Off-topic, but anybody got the source for that one?
Gerald
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 21:34:29 -0800
Reply-To: Kent Rasmussen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kent Rasmussen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Breakfast with Twain
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One of my many moribund writing projects is THE MARK TWAIN COOKBOOK, for =
which I did a fair amount of preliminary research a few years ago. One =
thing I learned is that A TRAMP ABROAD is probably the best published =
source of Mark Twain's views on food. The book mentions "breakfast" more =
than 30 times. Most of the comments are perfunctory, but chapter 49 =
contains a substantive discussion of the subject.
On the subject of Mark Twain as a teacher, some of his views on that =
subject are quoted in the NEW YORK TIMES article of March 17, 1901. That =
article is online at http://twainquotes.com/19010317.html
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:10:15 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Breakfast with Twain
In-Reply-To: <002401c70c65$bce80160$6401a8c0@Maincomputer>
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hi,
When you write the cookbook, don't forget
to put in about PLASMON. He was RABID
about eating it and having others eat it.
Especially Livy.
If you need more info I gave a presentation
about it at SAMLA this year, and hope to publish
this information.
thank you!
Jules
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:14:51 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Barbara Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BOOKS AND MEDIA: Briefly Noted
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JOURNALS - SPECIAL ISSUE
_Mark Twain Studies: Special Feature I: New Perspectives on 'The
War-Prayer' -- An International Forum and Special Feature II: Twain and
Asia_, Volume 2, October 2006. 192 pages. ISSN 1349-4635. Single issues $23
plus $3 shipping. This English language journal is published by the Japan
Mark Twain Society every three years. Shelley Fisher Fishkin has written an
introduction for an international round-table discussion on Twain's "The
War-Prayer" and provides a corrected text from Twain's manuscript and
typescript. Twenty-six essays of several pages each are featured. The
essays range in approach from historical to literary to personal. American
contributors whose names will be familiar to members of the Mark Twain
Forum include Ron Powers, Kevin Mac Donnell, Wesley Britton, Dwayne Eutsey,
Martin Zehr, Michael Kiskis, Darryl Brock, and Barry Crimmins.
The second feature of this issue is a section titled "Twain and Asia" and
features three essays: "From 'Mark Twain's Pet' to ''Merican Jap': The
Strange Career of Wallace Irwin's Hashimura Togo" by Uzawa Yoshiko; "Not
Twain, But Twichell: The Hartford Support System of Edward House's Japanese
Students" by Takashima Mariko; and "Representations of the Chinese Other in
Mark Twain's World" by Darren Chiang-Schultheiss.
Single issues can be ordered by sending your name and address and an
international money order for $26 to:
Dr. ISHIHARA Tsuyoshi
Waseda University, School of Education
1-6-1 Nishi-Waseda, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo
169-8050 Japan
Dr. Ishihara can be emailed at <[log in to unmask]>
Domestic money orders or personal checks cannot be accepted.
~~~~~
BOOKS
_Inuit Entertainers in the United States: From the Chicago World's Fair
through the Birth of Hollywood_. By Jim Zwick. Softcover. 206 pages.
Infinity Publishing, 2006. ISBN: 0741434881. $18.95. Zwick, better known in
Mark Twain circles as a researcher on Twain's views regarding
anti-imperialism, has turned his recent attention to tracking the lives of
Inuit performers who were brought to the United States for exhibition in
World's Fair expositions. Zwick makes outstanding use of historical
newspaper databases to trace the entertainment careers of Esther Eneutseak
and her daughter Columbia who was born at the Chicago World's Columbian
exposition in 1893. Zwick does not include Twain in this book but includes
the parallel on the website for the book. Twain's "The Esquimau Maiden's
Romance," first published in the November 1893 issue of _Cosmopolitan_ was
almost certainly inspired by the Eskimo Village exhibit at Chicago and the
accompanying newspaper reports related to conflicts between managers and
the Inuit over the refusal to wear fur in hot weather. Due to illness,
Twain did not leave his Chicago hotel room to visit the Chicago World's
Fair but he did visit the Charleston Exposition in 1902 and the Jamestown
Exposition in 1907 where Esther and her Inuit family were also featured.
The website for the book is:
http://www.inuitentertainers.com/
Amazon webpage for this book is:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0741434881/twainwebmarktwaiA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 07:29:20 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Price correction for Mark Twain Studies journal from Japan
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The correct amount for the Mark Twain journal issued by the Japan
Mark Twain society which includes "New Perspectives on 'The War-Prayer'
is $23 (not $26 as originally posted) which includes shipping.
International money orders can be obtained from any post office.
The $23 money order can be sent to:
Dr. ISHIHARA Tsuyoshi
Waseda University, School of Education
1-6-1 Nishi-Waseda, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo
169-8050 Japan
Barbara Schmidt
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 04:23:35 +0100
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: camy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sin?
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Dear Group:
I know the issue of Huck Finn and racism has been discussed innumerable
times so if this is repetitious, ignore it. When huck lies to the two men
who ask "if he has seen any niggers", maybe not the exact quotation, does
Twain really believe that organized religion considers such a lie a sin? Is
twain poking fun at organized religion here? Telling a lie to protect
someone's life would, in my opinion as a catholic, never have been
considered sinful.
What is your opinion on this?
Thank you.
Camy
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:18:18 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Barbara Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BOOK REVIEW: Applegate,
_The Most Famous Man in America: The Biography of Henry Ward
Beecher_
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The following book review was written for the Mark Twain Forum by Terrell
Dempsey.
~~~~~
BOOK REVIEW
_The Most Famous Man in America: The Biography of Henry Ward Beecher_.
Debby Applegate. Doubleday, 2006. Pp. 529. Hardcover. $27.95. ISBN
0-385-51396-8.
Many books reviewed on the Mark Twain Forum are available at discounted
prices from the Twain Web Bookstore. Purchases from this site generate
commissions that benefit the Mark Twain Project. Please visit
<http://www.twainweb.net/bookstore/>
Reviewed for the Mark Twain Forum by:
Terrell Dempsey
Copyright © 2006 Mark Twain Forum. This review may not be published or
redistributed in any medium without permission.
I first encountered Henry Ward Beecher some 30 years ago in a most unusual
place. I was at an estate auction in the country in Pike County, Missouri.
This was before the antique craze hit rural Missouri and country auctions
resembled fire-sale rummage sales. I bought a box filled with antique toys
and knickknacks. There at the bottom, along with a Roy Rogers truck and
Mickey Mouse lamp base was a glass figural head from the 1870s. Across the
bottom was written the name, Beecher.
I remembered Beecher, of course. I recalled the little bit I had been
taught about him in school--preacher, abolitionist,--he helped the
free-soilers in Kansas. But that was all I knew--surely not enough to
explain how his likeness came to be executed in glass and found its way to
a modest house near Eolia, Missouri. Now that gap in my knowledge has been
amply filled by a new book that is likely to be on the short list of works
considered by the Pulitzer Prize committee.
Debby Applegate's biography of Henry Ward Beecher is an absolute joy. The
book masterfully relates not just the life of a man who was central to the
events of the mid-19th century, but vividly places him in historical
context. Applegate has the gift of accurately relating the complex
movements of the time--abolitionism, free-soilism, female suffrage, the
birth of the Republican Party among them--in a clear, lively manner that
informs and entertains the novice, but will not bore or distract those with
deeper historical interests. Given the proclivity of Henry Beecher to be at
the epicenter of American social and political life for three tumultuous
decades, this is no mean accomplishment. The title of the book will
surprise some, particularly devotees of Mark Twain. Though Beecher has
faded from popular memory and is frequently reduced to a footnote in
historical references to his better-known sister, Harriet Beecher Stowe, or
to the rifles his church sent to besieged anti-slavery settlers in Kansas,
as Applegate's wonderful biography relates, he was a cultural superstar in
his day.
Born in 1813, Henry Ward Beecher was a member of a clerical dynasty. His
father was Lyman Beecher, one of the best-known ministers of the early 19th
century. Father Lyman was a Calvinist, who preached an angry, vengeful God.
His was a theology borne by Cotton Mather. He begat as talented a group of
children as any man, among them--son Thomas who would conduct the marriage
ceremony between Samuel Clemens and Olivia Langdon in Elmira; Harriet who
would fire the popular imagination of the nation to the injustice of
slavery; Isabelle who would be a light in the women's suffrage movement;
and Henry who would be the nation's most popular preacher.
Henry began his rise to fame in Indiana shepherding a small church in
Lawrenceburgh, but soon was offered a post in Indianapolis. This was soon
followed by the offer to lead Plymouth Church in Brooklyn. In 19th century
America, before the rise of modern mass media, people found entertainment
in the courthouses and churches of the day. People flocked to hear good
oration--and one of Henry's great gifts was his speaking skill. After his
arrival, his church in Brooklyn was soon packed on Sunday mornings. The
ferries from Manhattan were packed with people coming to hear him speak.
He also had the ability to inspire great love in people. Members of his
congregation kissed him affectionately and embraced him as part of their
family. He was not a physically attractive man, but he was a powerhouse in
the pulpit. He spoke without notes and could entrance his congregation for
hours. When he began touring and giving his lectures, he electrified the
public in the same way he affected his communicants.
Beecher was no dogmatist like his father. If he didn't originate the idea
of God as love, he is the man who popularized it among liberal protestant
denominations. In fact, he drifted so far from his father's Calvinism that
he repudiated the very idea of hell. He was one of the first to reconcile
Darwin and the Bible. His theology was, if anything, rather vague. He
preached a loose, non-literal interpretation of the gospels. This was a
revolutionary approach to the Bible in mid-19th century America. Applegate
writes that the appeal of Beecherism "lay in its two interwoven tenets:
Liberty and Sympathy, or Freedom and Love, Beecher's 'Gospel of Love'" (p.
291). Beecher preached that "Jesus felt instantly that there were
affinities and relationships far higher and wider than those constituted by
the earthly necessities of family life. . . Many and many a one is born
sister to you and is not sister; is born brother, and is no kindred of
yours. And many whose father and mother you never know, are own brothers to
you by soul-affinity" (p. 291).
It is perhaps not surprising that Beecher embraced anti-slavery with a
passion. Were slaves not our brothers and sisters? Mock slave auctions were
a regular feature of services at Plymouth Church, and funds were often
raised to purchase the freedom of slaves in the South. When events in
Kansas boiled to the point of civil war, Beecher proclaimed the right of
self-defense for the anti-slavery settlers. Under his leadership, rifles
and supplies were shipped to the settlers. To avoid confiscation by the
authorities and pro-slavery forces, the supplies were shipped in boxes with
misleading content labels. Opponents claimed that rifles were shipped in
boxes marked as containing Bibles. The Sharpe's carbine, an innovative
breech-loading firearm of the time, will forever be known as a "Beecher
Bible." In those sexist times, there were many who believed that he was the
one who actually penned his sister's book _Uncle Tom's Cabin_.
Beecher had no fear of mixing politics and pulpit. He was an early force in
the Republican Party. He stumped for Fremont in 1856, and was an early
Lincoln stalwart. It is a little-known fact that Lincoln's critical Cooper
Union speech was originally scheduled for Plymouth Church but was moved
because the Union hall accommodated more people. During the Civil War, when
the possible support of Great Britain for the Confederacy threatened the
cause of the Union, Beecher gave a successful series of speeches in Britain
which helped quash enthusiasm there for the South.
Beecher's life intersected with Mark Twain's in 1867. When Twain arrived in
New York that year, he went to Plymouth Church to hear the famous preacher
speak and related his impressions in a letter published March 30, 1867 in
the San Francisco _Alta California_ newspaper. Later that spring a deacon
of Plymouth Church and a close friend of Beecher's, Captain Charles Duncan
organized what was to be one of the first luxury cruises in America. With
rumors flying that General W. T. Sherman of Civil War fame and Henry Ward
Beecher himself were going on the tour, Duncan promoted a five-month
excursion through the Mediterranean to the Holy Land aboard the steamer
_Quaker City_. Twain went as a newspaper correspondent and entered into a
friendship with 17-year-old Emeline Beach (Applegate refers to her as
"Emma"), daughter of Moses and Chloe Beach who were close acquaintances of
Beecher. Moses Beach, owner of the _New York Sun_ made the excursion. His
wife Chloe remained at home. The nature of the Beach and Beecher friendship
was a complicated one and Applegate theorizes that Beecher had fathered a
daughter named Violet in January 1867 with Chloe Beach.
After the _Quaker City_ returned in 1867, Twain was invited with his new
friends to the Beecher home for dinner one Sunday. Twain and Beecher
immediately liked each other. "Henry Ward is a brick," Twain declared in a
letter to his mother Jane Clemens dated 8 January 1868. In a second letter
to his mother dated 24 January 1868 Twain wrote that Beecher advised, "Now
here, you are one of the talented men of the age--nobody is going to deny
that--but in matters of business, I don't suppose you know more than enough
to come in when it rains. I'll tell you what to do, and how to do it" (p.
375). Applegate relates that Twain followed Beecher's advice and the
resulting _Innocents Abroad, or, the New Pilgrim's Progress_ became a
best-seller. Although Applegate does not elaborate on the advice Beecher
gave Twain about publishing his book, the editors of _Mark Twain's Letters,
Volume 2, 1867-1868_ (University of California Press, 1990) explain that
Beecher had recently successfully executed a book contract with a
subscription publisher.
Beecher's success was tainted in the end by a sex scandal. The same
magnetism that brought hordes to Plymouth Church and packed the lecture
halls made him attractive to women. Rumor had it that when Beecher, a
married man and a father, preached on Sunday morning there were always a
number of his mistresses in his congregation. Applegate's matter-of-fact
explanation of how Victorian women's undergarments facilitated easy parlor
encounters despite petticoats and pantaloons is priceless.
An earlier sex scandal of 1856-7 with Edna Dean Proctor was kept under
wraps for years. But eventually litigation was brought against Beecher by
Theodore Tilton, a supposedly cuckolded husband for criminal
conversation--the old legal term for having sexual intercourse with another
man's wife. The 1875 trial received national attention. Mark Twain took
great interest in the sex trial and, along with his friend and pastor
Joseph Twichell, attended the proceedings the day Beecher was scheduled to
testify. The trial resulted in a hung jury and haunted the latter years of
Beecher's career. He died of a stroke in March 1887 a month after signing a
contract with Mark Twain's publishing company to write his autobiography.
Mark Twain supported Beecher throughout his public scandal. Applegate
relates that Twain choked up when reading the sermon on Beecher delivered
by Joseph Twichell after Beecher died. "What a pity," Twain wrote in a
letter to Twichell, "that so insignificant a matter as the chastity or
unchastity of an Elizabeth Tilton could clip the locks of this Samson and
make him as other men, in the estimation of a nation of Lilliputians
creeping and climbing about his shoe-soles" (p. 468).
Applegate points out the irony that Beecher's tombstone epithet reads "He
thinketh no evil"--these were the same words that Herman Melville had used
to introduce his book _The Confidence Man: His Masquerade_ (1857) which
some scholars believe was a satire of Henry Ward Beecher.
Applegate combines primary research from many archives including Yale's
collection of Henry Ward Beecher's personal papers. The book contains
reference notes and a bibliography. For Twain scholars, the shortcomings in
Applegate's book will be found in her referencing of Twain-related
material. Not all quotes such as the quotes from letters Twain wrote to his
mother are referenced. It is evident Applegate used multiple editions of
_Mark Twain's Letters_ published by the University of California Press.
However, her bibliography lists only the _1867-1868_ edition edited by
Harriet Elinor Smith and Richard Bucci. Other volumes of _Mark Twain's
Letters_ published by University of California Press appear in Applegate's
reference notes but are misidentified and have different editors--not Smith
and Bucci. Applegate also references "Twain, _Autobiography of Mark Twain_"
(p. 494) in one of her reference notes but fails to add it to the
bibliography or specify it is the Charles Neider edition.
Religious scholars might be disappointed as well that there is not more
theology in the book. But in the end, all such criticism feels like minor
nitpicking. An author who tackles a man as complex and as large as a Twain
or a Beecher must make choices lest the work never end. Applegate's book is
an incredible study. Her portrayal of the times is as vivid and accurate as
her portrayal of Beecher.
Applegate has restored Beecher to his place in the American pantheon. It
should be no surprise to see the cover of the 2007 printings of this book
bearing the announcement, "Winner of the 2006 . . ." It also will be no
surprise to go to an auction after this book has been on the shelves for a
year or so and have the auctioneer hold up a Beecher chatchke or the
ubiquitous Victorian photo album open to the page where the Beecher photo
can be found. I can just hear him call, "Look at this ladies and gentlemen.
That's Henry Ward Beecher! The most famous man in America! Who'll start me
out at . . ."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:22:40 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sin?
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Dear Camy,
As someone with a partial degree in theology from a Jesuit college (St.
Joe's, where you might think of going), sin is relative. I believe Sam
understood that with a clarity rare for his time.
For Huck, in my humble opinion, lying to save someone's life is no sin.
In fact, it's an act of courage and honor. That's precisely why Sam grew so
skeptical of organized religion over the years; the "our way or the highway"
no
doubt perplexed him mightily.
He was a man of faith who, in his hard-earned wisdom, saw most organized
religion for what it was, and is: a bunch of people with too much time on
their hands who try to tell others how to live their lives.
Stick with the Beatitudes. I suspect, from my feeble perch, that Sam
understood that too.
Kathy O'Connell
Still, reluctantly, at liberty
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:53:56 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Margaret Sibbitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sin?
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Camy:
Two things: It was always permissible in the Bible to tell a lie IF it
would save a person's life. You'll note that King David "pretended" he was
mad...Rahab, the prostitute lied to the people persecuting the Hebrews.
This was the only time.
The New Testament says: ANYTHING not of faith is sin. It makes a
distinction between walking in the Spirit and walking in a natural,
conformed to this world pattern. Walking in the spirit means being obedient
to the WORD, for faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. So the
Bible states.
There was a marvelous thesis done a long time ago on Huck Finn and Dante's
Inferno. About how the descent into hell's sins are reflected in the
travels of Huck.
Just a thought.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:00:47 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: tdempsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sin?
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Camy, I think historically, an attendee of Hannibal First Presbyterian
Church of 1847-53 would have been prone to consider such a lie a sin.
Slavery was a punishment designed by God for the descendants of Ham. Slaves
were property. God intended slaves to obey their masters. Thus Huck,
within that context, would have offended God by protecting a slave. The lie
would have aided in the theft of a slave -- a runaway slave steals himself
from his master, thus breaking one of the commandments. Huck's clear moral
obligation was to instruct Jim to return to his master.
I think Twain did not agree with these propositions as an adult --
certainly not when he wrote Huck. However, the churches of his youth did.
Some eternal truths seem to change with time.
Terrell Dempsey
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:09:57 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Foster <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sin?
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Dear Camy,
In thinking about Huck's lies, it is important to realize that he lies
frequently and many of the lies don't come near to being justified by
saving someone's life. He still thinks they are necessary or
inevitable, as the very first paragraph of the book suggests (where he
says that everyone must tell "stretchers" except perhaps the purest
Christian women, like the Widow Douglas). Many of Huck's lies are told
to get him out of trouble, or at least what he thinks will be trouble;
but some of them are more complicated. The one that seems most
problematic is the lie he tells the boat owner/captain to get him to
attempt to rescue the gang of thieves aboard the Walter Scott. Huck's
elaborate lie sends the essentially good man to the doomed boat where he
will, unsuspectingly, encouter a band of armed and desperate murderers.
Huck is saved from bearing the possible odium of the consequences of
this lie only by the fact that the boat sinks before the captain can get
there. In this case, Huck seems to be somehow doing what he thinks the
Widow would approve - looking after low-down rapscallians like the
members of the gang. In general, I suspect that Huck (Twain?) thinks
that lies are required by the conditions of "sivilization". If one
wanted to read this theologically, one could say that man's sinfulness
(at least as that sin is revealed in social life) necessitates lying.
David Foster
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:09:54 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bob Gill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TWAIN-L Digest - 19 Nov 2006 to 26 Nov 2006 (#2006-15)
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> .... Twain wrote that Beecher advised, "Now
> here, you are one of the talented men of the age--nobody is going to deny
> that--but in matters of business, I don't suppose you know more than
enough
> to come in when it rains."
That by itself is pretty good evidence that Beecher was an excellent judge
of people.
-- Bob G.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:51:43 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Horn Jason <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sin?
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Good point!
I know that as a Catholic, I must attempt to save another's life if I
can--by any means. Of course, I can turn my cheek when it comes to my
own protection. Huck seems to be unsuspectingly doing his Christian
duty by saving Jim. I wonder if Twain is just making the boy the one and
only true Christian in the book.
Jason G. Horn
Gordon College
Barnesville, GA
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:17:43 -0600
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Barbara Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Invitation for those in St. Louis area
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I am posting this announcement for those who are sponsoring this event:
The Francis A. Schaeffer Institute of Covenant Seminary in St. Louis, MO,
sponsors a lecture series called "Friday Nights @ the Institute." Hal
Bush, will be speaking this coming Friday, Dec. 1st at 7:30 pm, about his
new book, _Mark Twain and the Spiritual Crisis of His Age_ (University of
Alabama Press, 2007). The event will be at Kaldi's Coffee House, 120 South
Kirkwood Rd., in Kirkwood, MO (suburb of St. Louis). If you happen to be in
the area, you are invited to attend and meet the author. Admission if free.
Today's Elmira's (New York) newspaper features comments on Bush's book. The
URL for the article is:
http://www.stargazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID 06611280308
The book will be reviewed on the Mark Twain Forum in the near future.
Barb
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 05:00:59 -0800
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cal Pritner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: mary ann cord story source?
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What is the source for the story of how Susan Crane
got Sam to query Auntie Cord?
Cheers,
Cal Pritner
New York, NY
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:58:14 EST
Reply-To: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Mark Twain Forum <[log in to unmask]>
From: David H Fears <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: mary ann cord story source?
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Your question assumes Susan Crane had something to do with coaxing or
persuading Sam to listen to Mary Ann Cord's story, told to Sam and others
at Quarry
Farm. Remember, Sam and Livy stayed with the Cranes during the summer of
1874. Here's an entry from my WIP, "Mark Twain Day-By-Day":
1874- September 2nd Wednesday - Sam wrote from Elmira to William Dean
Howells, who had telegraphed Sam that day to send on a manuscript for
consideration
in the Atlantic Monthly. In late June or early July on one of Sam's visits
to New York, he had related the story of Mary Ann "Auntie" Cord, a former
slave who was the Crane's cook at Quarry Farm, to John Hay and William
Seaver.
Cord had lost her husband and 7 children when the family was broken up for
sale
around 1852. Some 13 years later her eldest son, Henry, was found and
reunited with his mother. Mary Ann told Sam the story of her slavery,
seperation
and reunion. Upon Hay's urging, Sam wrote up the story and submitted it
along
with the "Fable for Old Boys & Girls" to Howells at the Atlantic Monthly.
"Fable" was rejected but "A True Story, Repeated Word for Word as I Heard
It,"
appeared in the November 1874 issue. This was Sam's first appearance in the
highly respected literary magazine. [1f,p217-220]
David H Fears