I, too, was saddened by Camy's departure from this list. Indeed, I was thinking about her yesterday, while we were discussing the departure of other Forum members, and I enthusiastically add my voice to those who encourage her to come back. Camy's case also serves as an object lesson that yesterday’s effort to encourage another Forum member to leave had nothing to do with liberalism vs. conservatism, political correctness, or free speech. The real issue is civility. I personally welcome disagreement and controversy, but I strongly believe that online discussion groups should not tolerate rudeness and personal insults–which were that other member’s stock in trade. I'm astonished to learn that some Forum members regard him as a courageous defender of free speech and that those of us who wanted him to go away were being "bullies." If anything, the opposite was the case. The description of him as a “narcissistic troll” may go too far, but one need merely reread some of that fellow’s recent postings to see how much he enjoyed starting fires and fanning the flames. He clearly seemed more interested in drawing attention to himself than in promoting honest debate. A well-read friend of mine who has followed the recent disturbance on the Forum with some astonishment has furnished a very poignant quotation from a historian named Norman Etherington: "The tendency to turn intellectual quarrels into personal ones closes off debate worth having." Can there be a more apt description than that of what's been happening recently on the Forum? Let's put this mess behind us and get back to discussing real issues. Kent Rasmussen