In her recent posting, Ms. Vicki Richman comments, re my citation of Howard Baetzhold and a comment therein by Katy Leary: "I am reluctant to accept any report from the Clemens household about Mark Twain's opinions, especially on so loaded a subject as sexual mores...The only source for Twain's sexual views is Twain himself. His own daughter suppressed her father's later writings until the 1960s, holding them a disgrace to the family and requiring vows of secrecy from scholars in exchange for permission to read them." I don't know, of course, that Katy Leary attributed anything to Twain in the full quote from the Lawton book. Her words may have been simply a private opinion. But usually the private opinions of housekeepers on such matters are "cornpone" opinions and don't stray very far from those of their employers. I would like to see that book, though. It is perhaps as germane to consider what Twain did not say. A previous poster commented that he had never encountered any remark of Twain's on the subject of homosexuality. This has been my experience, too. Moreover, in all that mass of unpublished writing which Bernard Devoto made available to us in Letters from the Earth, the writings wherein Twain wrote "with a pen warmed up in hell" and was being most uncircumspect about sexual matters, homosexual sex _never even occurred to him as a possibility_. It did not register in his consciousness that men and women engage in such behavior; and I suspect that, except among homosexuals themselves, it was not a subject that men and women of his era _ever_ gave much thought to--except to express condemnation when incidents like the Wilde case arose. Nor is there, that I have ever been able to find, any reference in his writings to the trial of Oscar Wilde or to the imprisonment of Oscar Wilde or to the consequent banishment of Oscar Wilde from society, though one might expect that if Twain had had any feeling at all as to the injustice of these things, he would have made that feeling known, if only in a private note. And if he had made such a statement, you can be sure it would have been plucked before now out of his body of writings, as a golden brick from among the clay, and made to serve, in the critical organs of the present, as the paltry foundation for dozens of theory-built dream castles. One can, on the other hand, find evidence in his writings that Twain disapproved of effeminacy. Not all homosexuals are effeminate, of course, but the existence of disapproval at all-- of certain metaphors used in disparagement, in illustration of human decadence--indicates that Twain would not have found homosexuality, wherein effeminacy is fully embraced, so to speak, a matter for anything but distaste. If you have evidence to the contrary, I would like to see it. As for Clara's suppression of Twain's material, I wonder if it had to do _only_ with sexual matters and not something else-- like politics, for instance. Perhaps someone on the list could enlighten us. Ms. Richman also notes: "We know that he loved his wife so much that he was willing to suffer her censorship in uncomfortable silence, even though her way of life was anathema to him." I am a little puzzled about what you mean by the term "her way of life." If you refer to the way she lived her life personally, I can't imagine that Twain would agree with the assessment. It seems to me that, in the inevitable compromises that marriage entails, Livy gave up much for Twain, including her faith (no small sacrifice). And clearly she must have had to make many emotional adjustments in order to deal with a man capable of using streams of profanity and going into explosive fits of anger, even granted that these were directed at the general stupidity and dishonesty of politicians, kings and other extrafamilial asses. And what did Twain give up for Livy? Precious little, despite occasional promises of "reform." And what did he get from her? As Justin Kaplin, no light hitter, says of their early days together: "He was overwhelmed by Livy's prodigal affections and caresses, and his love for her, despite his etherealizing of her, was plainly and contentedly sexual." As for Livy's censorship, I wonder if it was as terrible an experience for Twain as you make out. In many ways Twain was unsure of himself as an author and often sought out the advice of those whose literary taste he trusted. He bothered Howells, for instance, to "point out the glaring defects for me" in the manuscript of _Tom Sawyer_, and he was always anxious after the opinion of "Mother" Fairbanks and others of her kind. He even went so far as to make _The Gilded Age_ a corporate enterprise in which Livy and Susie Warner, the author's wives, were closely involved in the development of the story and decided on the book's ending. I don't know all the reasons Twain sought out the advice of others. But I can guess why he turned to Livy, who was a very sharp woman intellectually. Twain was not one of these aesthetic "purists" willing to live in poverty and and disgrace for the sake of some lofty artistic principle. He was a popular writer with a taste for the good life--nice houses, expensive hotels, tons of books, travel abroad; and he had a good size appetite for public approval. To keep the good life going, he intended to make a great deal of money from his books, and if Livy could help him do so by culling out anything that she felt would give offense and cause his books to sell less well to an American public that was a bit more squeamish than the public is at present, then she was simply doing what Twain himself did not always feel adequate to do. And to judge by the works themselves, I can't see that Livy's excising hand was any too heavy. Even given her excisions, the books provided about as much controversy as Twain could handle. He was a man, it is true, who loved to shock but who was well aware of his need for a circuit breaker. If you are referring to Livy's social life, to her circle of friends and relations, I wonder again if Twain would agree with your assessment. From all that I've been able to gather from Twain's letters and from the various biographies of him, he was anxious to be accepted into her circle and on his own terms. The fact that he was, after a trial period, so accepted and came to count individuals in that circle among his closest friends is a credit not only to Twain's considerable charm and intelligence but to the circle's liberality and openness to genuine ability. For this reason I imagine that when Twain castigated the rigidity of the English class system in such works as _A Connecticut Yankee_, he had in mind his own easy entry--coming, as he did, as a Western rough and comedic vulgarian--into what seemed to him the upper reaches of American society. And Twain undoubtedly saw himself as a deserving occupant of those reaches. However you might want to see him as the very genius of democracy, a legend he sometimes cultivated, there was little in his day-to-day life to indicate that he was especially "of the people." In fact, as soon as he came East and shook the dust of California out of his boots, he spent the rest of his life seeking out and unapologetically revelling in the company of the rich, the powerful, the famous and the talented. And he took enormous pleasure in the fact that they often sought him out and revelled unapologetically in his company. His attachment to Livy gave him easy and early access to any number of such individuals. If Twain found Livy's way of life anathema to him, he certainly didn't let on. He seemed to enjoy his life in a way few writers ever have; and he considered that life pretty much over after Livy died. Once again, if you have evidence to the contrary, I would like to see it. Finally, Ms. Richman says: "Point of information: Should not the date "1902" in your citation in fact be 1892, three years before the Queensberry accusation against Oscar Wilde?" Quite right! I have sentenced myself to a rereading of "How to Make History Dates Stick." Bob Champ