Wes's comments about his poetry workshop and the student reacting to his poem about christian Hypocrisy clearly fall into the realm of useful criticism and discussion. I've been following this discussion about criticism and all the jargon, and after reading his comments I finally realized where the distinctions were for me. If a critic approaches a work with an honest desire to learn and understand it, then I think it's very hard, perhaps impossible, for that critic to rile me. I may disagree with her/him, but I'll at least give them a chance and hear them out. What bothers me is when someone assaults a text to force their own ideas on it. (I'm thinking specifically about a teacher who told us outright lies about the authors to get us to accept her political ideas) I don't like it when people try to bend a text to fit their theories, (I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw of a young man reading the Bible, telling his father "I'm looking for passages to support my preconceived notions") and I especially detest when someone is writing or talking just because they like the sound of their own words. (Something some of you may feel I'm doing now) Ultimately, I find myself drawing the line at the critic's intentions. If they want to learn, share and pass on knowledge and understanding, then all the jargon is a valuable tool. Whatever they say will have some value. If, on the other hand, they just want to show off how smart they are, then most of what they say will be little more than showing off the size of their dictionary and ego. Matthew Miller