Vern Crisler wrote: >At 05:29 PM 7/4/98 -0400, Barry Crimmins wrote: ><snip> >Barry said: >>I hope that intellect is not the sole domain of the dry, inaccessible and >>boring. Any dope can petrify others into a coma with his/her expertise and >>views. It takes a certain genius to effectively smuggle content to a >>general audience. People let their guard down when they are laughing. A >>smart and subversive humorist will make sure that before that guard is >>brought back up, it protects at least a somewhat more sophisticated point >>of view. Vern replied: >Good points, except that I don't consider being "subversive" as what makes >someone funny. (It usually makes them boring.) Humor is a form of >entertainment, not necessarily a conduit for revolutionary propaganda. On >the other hand, Twain did claim that his humor lasted because he >"preached"--though, in my judgemnt, when Twain really does preach, he's as >dry as an Arizona desert. I referred to a "smart and subversive humorist." I never said being subversive was a requirement for having a sense of humor. I will say that it sure doesn't hurt. I *was* taking some license in my use of the word "subversive". What I meant was that humor can help conceal a drier message. It can make something complicated easier to understand. Therefore humor can help a "deep thinker" convey his/her thoughts to average thinkers a/k/a "the great dull bulk". Subversives are usually boring? Was Tom Paine boring? How about Emma Goldman? Joe Hill? Abbie Hoffman? I loved it when Twain preached and I learned much about imperialism, monarchy, militarism, vanity, greed and other human inanities when he did so. But there was often at least a touch of humor in some of his most dire writing. If you don't see the humor in _The War Prayer_ , then we are too far apart to hope to realize any mutual benefit from this exchange. A bunch of lemmings sit praying for war and a Messenger From Above comes down to say "just want to make sure this is what you are ordering." Now the point WAS obvious but I have never seen it made better. People need to know that there are horrible consequences for fellow humans whenever there is war. They need to know that the groundswell of pro-war sentiment is inevitably the product of anything but "deep thought." _The War Prayer_ provides those timeless truths in a very accessible manner. That's pretty important and thoughtful writing, if you ask me. > >>Humorists are as diverse a group as, say, any college faculty. There are >>lightweight, obvious jokesters, there are learned lampooners of all that >>deserves to be targeted. There are all sorts in between. They come in every >>gender, age, race, nationality, religion. No hard and fast rule should be >>applied to such a varied group of people. Vern challenged: >Can you give some examples of current day humorists who are also profound >thinkers. My mind is drawing a blank. :-) I am encouraged you have finally taken a mental inventory, Vern. Kevin Rooney is a successful Hollywood producer, writer and comedian (numerous appearances on the Tonight Show, HBO specials etc., -- was Dennis Miller's head writer for years, now he's primarily a TV producer paid huge sums to repair broken comedies). He is one of the most profoundly brilliant people I have ever met. He's learned, literate and accomplished. So there's one and that's as far as I will indulge you-- not because there aren't many more but because your assertion is absurd and hopelessly prejudiced against practitioners of a method of communication. Humorists who are capable of making points so well as to elicit the affirmation of laughter are not deserving of placement in some sort of intellectual underclass. There are many lightweight practicioners of comedy but all humorists are not the "fourth stooge." While we are posing challenges about the modern age, please name for me any extant group which honors the memory of that great "humoracist" Van Wyck Brooks. It seems that a Brooks group would be ideal for you, Vern. I wrote: > >> I was very impressed with Twain's views on many issues, but then, I'd like >>to think I have a sense of humor. I allow that it may just be that I do >>not possess the intellectual depth required to make such an assessment. >>That said, if a sense of humor belies a shallow mind, why do they call it >>"wit"? Vern rejoindered: >Do you agree with Twain's views on Shakespeare? Or do you think the main >value of his essay on Shakespeare was his tale about his arguments with the >steamboat pilot? I find his views on Shakespeare interesting but I do not consider them to be particularly relevant to my overall opinion of Twain. Even if he was completely wrong about Shakespeare, where does it say that ALL of his views need to be correct for him to be respected for his intellect? He put together a huge body of work and much of it reflects very deep thought. It would seem that even shallow people could grasp the idea that someone needn't be infallible to be a damned capable thinker. Barry Crimmins