I have a quote which was attributed to Twain in 1952.  Does anyone know if
it's
genuine?

"I'm told that fish-hooks don't hurt the fish but it wasn't a fish that
told me so."

thanks, larry
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:56:51 -0500
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From:         Lawrence Marshburne Jr <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Twain's dialect sources
In-Reply-To:  Gregg Camfield <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> "Re: Literature on Trial"
              (Nov  2,  9:16am)
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Has anyone looked at Joel Chandler Harris (Uncle Remus) or at any slave
narratives as possible sources for Twain's written dialects?

thanks, larry              <a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:56:38 -0500
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From:         Everett Emerson <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Bret Harte
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In Archibald Henderson's 1911/1912 book MARK TWAIN, he quotes Harte's
description of Mark Twain, when he first met him:
His head was striking.  He had the curly hair, the aquiline eye--an eye so
eagle-like that a second lid would not have surprised me--of an unusual and
dominant nature.  His eyebrows were very thick and bushy.  His dress was
careless, and his general manner was one of supreme indifference to
surroundings and circumstances.  Barnes introduced him as Mr.  Sam Clemens,
and remarked that he had shown a very unusual talent in a number of
newspaper articles contributed over the signature of 'Mark Twain'."
        Can anyone tell me where that dsecription was published?  [I LIKE
it!]
                                Everett Emerson
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:43:39 -0600
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Subject:      Re: Bret Harte
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According to a sales description, the Harte quote on Twain appeared in:

THE LIFE OF BRET HARTE; by T. Edgar Pemberton; C. Arthur Pearson Limited;
London, 1903, 358 pages. Rare standard life of Harte printed by
Ballantyne, Hanson and Co, Edinburgh and London. This book includes
Harte's well-known description of Mark Twain: "He had the curly hair, the
aquiline nose, and even the aquiline eye--an eye so eagle-like, that a
second lid would not have surprised me..."

I've not examined the book nor found an earlier reference to the quote
published elsewhere.

Barb
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:37:38 -0600
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Subject:      Re: Literature on Trial
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Hello, all,

Like everyone on the forum, I read with dismay Jim Zwick's note about _Huck
Finn_ and "A Rose for Emily" (one of my favorite stories that I teach
whenever I can) creating a "hostile work environment" and therefore at risk
of banishment.  I forwarded Jim's note to a friend who's been an attorney
for a number of years.  His response to me is below.  We may not have as
much reason to worry as we feared.

ANYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT READING LEGAL OPINIONS WOULD KNOW BETTER
THAN TO EXTRACT A LITIGANT'S CONTENTION AS THE OPINION OF THE COURT.  THE
REASON I EVEN LOOKED THIS UP IS THAT I COULDN'T BELIEVE THE 9TH CIRCUIT
WOULD HAVE ISSUED SUCH A RULING.  THE DECISION ACTUALLY STANDS FOR THE
PRECISE OPPOSITE PROPOSITION.
THE NINTH CIRCUIT HELD THAT IT WOULD BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL FOR A COURT TO
INTERFERE WITH A SCHOOL'S CURRICULUM, ESPECIALLY BASED ON CONTENT.  THEY
DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT RESPOND TO THE COMPLAINT.

THE "QUOTE" IN HIS MESSAGE FROM THE OPINION DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE BODY OF
THE OPINION.  THIS IS ALSO NOT A HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT CASE, AS WAS
CONTENDED IN THE MESSAGE; THE BASIS OF THE CASE IS THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT
AND TITLE VI OF
THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1964.  ALSO, HIS REFERENCE TO A MARYLAND COURT
DECISION BANNING ANGELOU AND MORRISON WORKS FROM THE SCHOOLS SIMPLY DOES
NOT EXIST (I DID A TWO YEAR RETROACTIVE SEARCH).  IN FACT, THE LOS ANGELES
TIMES REPORTED THAT THE MARYLAND SCHOOL BOARD VOLUNTARILY WITHDREW THOSE
WORKS FROM THE CURRICULUM BECAUSE THEY WERE "TRASH" AND "ANTI-WHITE."  THE
VAGUE REFERENCE IN THE MESSAGE TO ARIZONA CIVIL RIGHTS LITIGATION REGARDING
CURRICULUM IS UNVERIFIABLE.

My friend is doublechecking, but it looks like the student's complaint was
not upheld by the court.  If I get any additional information, I'll pass it
along.

Jim McWilliams
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:06:39 -0600
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Subject:      Re: Mark Twain quote
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Larry:  If Twain said this  in 1952, I think we'd all be amazed. ;-)

Michael O'Conner
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:56:54 -0500
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Subject:      Re: Literature on Trial
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"Anyone who knows anything about reading legal opinions would
know better than to extract a litigant's contention as the opinion of
the court." (original all-caps "shouting" eliminated)

Well, all I can say is that anyone who knows anything about
reading -- period -- would know that that was quoted as a summary
of the *challenge* not the opinion of the court ("The complaint..
alleged.... It also alleged...").  As I stated in the original post, "The
court ruled against banning books based on their content but ruled
that school districts can be held financially liable if they do not
address racially hostile environments at schools."  This second
part was not my main concern, but according to news reports in
the Los Angeles Times and Arizona Republic, the court set a new
standard for assessing liability for failure to address racially hosile
environments in schools "that parallels the standards for proving
workplace harrassment."  The lawyer arguing the case undoubtedly
used the "hostile work environment" language to create that parallel
while the case itself, as I said and the lawyer friend agrees, was
based on civil rights legislation. The Arizona Republic article will
soon be moved to its premium archive but is still online for free at

http://www.azcentral.com:80/sev/news/1022huckfinn.shtml

As I said, the challenges in Maryland were made through school
boards, not the courts.  A Washington Post article about them is
still available at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/war.htm

What I think is interesting in the Arizona case is that civil rights
legislation was used to move a challenge to class readings to the
courts.  That is definitely very unusual and I was wondering if it was
the first time it had been tried.

I think that this kind of civil rights-based strategy for challenging
literature assignments in the curriculum is a new one that we are
likely to see used again in other communities, though not
necessarily involving the courts. In February 1998 the Pennsylvania
NAACP urged students and parents to file grievances with the
State Human Rights Commission if their schools did not remove
Huckleberry Finn from required reading lists.  In March, two
members of the San Francisco school board proposed an
affirmative action-like quota requiring that the ethnicity of authors
studied approximate the ethnicity of the student population.  In San
Francisco they ended up with a compromise solution that created
a more diverse set of required readings without a specific quota.

The specific grievance that was supposed to be filed in
Pennsylvania was never specified in the press reports but the
president of the state NAACP explained that their campaign to
remove the book from reading lists grew out of a broader campaign
against hate crimes.  The "chilling" effect that Gregg Camfield
noted from this kind of challenge is quite broad.  The Arizona court
also noted the negative effects of the threat of litigation in the part
of its opinion about the curriculum.

Since posting the question about previous legal challenges to
books someone on another list to which it was forwarded has
responded that there was a case in Alabama in the mid-1980s
where parents claimed that use of a specific textbook was
equivalent to forcing children to study "a religion called secular
humanism."  According to the person who wrote me about that
case, "The trial judge initially ruled in plaintiffs' favor, but the case
was overturned on appeal."

I was wondering if the Arizona case was the first time a book was
challenged through the courts but this Alabama case followed a
similar strategy by challenging the textbook on religious grounds.

Jim Zwick
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:49:12 -0500
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Subject:      Re: Bret Harte
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Thanks to the excellent scholarship of BARB, I've found the quotation about
Mark Twain by Bret Harte in the Pemberton biography.  It begins on page 73
and continues to the top of p. 75.  The whole passage is well worth
reading. According to Margaret Duckett's MARK TWAIN AND BRET HARTE, Harte
told the story to Pemberton (p. 8).
                                Everett

Hooray for the Mark Twain Forum!  Three Cheers for Barb!
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:25:07 -0500
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Subject:      Re: Mark Twain quote
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              3, 98 08:06:39 am
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I'm glad we've eliminated 1952, but I was actually wondering if he had
said it during any of the years that he was alive.  In 1952, it was
attributed to Twain.  I'm trying to determine if it was attributed, in any
earlier year, to Twain, or, in any year, to anyone else.  It sounds a
little fishy to me.

thanks, larry
========================================================================Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:46:05 -0600
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Subject:      Re: Mark Twain quote
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Larry:

For what it is worth, I did a phrase search on my Twain's World CD-ROM,
and did not locate the quote.

There are multiple references to "fish-hooks" (hyphenated) in:

The Esquimau Maiden's Romance
Roughing It:  Volume II:  Chapter 27
Tom Sawyer Abroad:  Chapter 8
The Mysterious Stranger, Part 8

but none as in your quote.  Suspiciously, (yes, fishy) Twain always used
the hyphenated "fish-hooks" in all these quotes.  Your quote did not have
the hyphenation.

Can we draw conclusions from this?  Probably not.

Michael
========================================================================Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:58:04 -0500
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From:         terry oggel <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Literature on Trial
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I couldn't help but respond to G.Camfield's presumably hyperbolic
rhetorical question here--Does this mean that we are now to pay children
for the work they do at school?--by saying that I heard today that N.
Gingrich's ed. plan calls for exactly that--paying students for reading
books.  I think I heard that--on PBS this morning.  Or was I only having a
nightmare?

And, has anyone seen Pleasantville, the movie? The highlight for us on this
list, and really the most exciting scene in the movie, is the one in which
a book used to show how (Americans') minds can be opened--and what book is
it?? _Adv. of Huck. Finn_.

Terry Oggel
========================================================================Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:36:45 -0800
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From:         JOSEPH B MC CULLOUGH <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      FISH-HOOKS QUOTATION
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I also do not recall ever having come across the quoation about
fish-hooks
attrributed to Twain.  I am assuming, by the way, that the quotation
itself is accurate and not cofused with another related quotation by
Twain:
        "Do not tell fish stories where the people know you; but
particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish."

        This particular quotation is reprinted in Lou Budd's edition,
_Collected Tales, Sketches, Speeches, & Essays_ (Vol. 2) under "More
Maxims of Mark Twain."  It is also listed by Ayres in _Wit and Wisdonm of
Mark Twain_, as well as in other collections of Twain's sayings.

        But as for "fish-hooks"......

Joe McCullough
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:40:34 EST
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From:         Kathy O'Connell <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Literature on Trial
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I saw PLEASANTVILLE over the weekend and it's a fascinating conceit. I
looked
at it as a very sly poke at all those "return to family values" hypocrites
and just as that scene was beginning I whispered to my friend, "betcha it's
HUCK
FINN." And in the audience that afternoon, a few people even applauded. Who
says Hartford doesn't appreciate Sam Clemens?

Kathy O'Connell
Hartford Advocate
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:53:45 +0100
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From:         Ferran Romeu <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Tom Sawyer video recordings
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Dear list members,

I'm interested in purchasing either films or cartoons based on _The
Adventures of Tom Sawyer_. However, I don't know what films are
currently available and where I should purchase them. Please contact me
if you can help me with this. My e-mail address is <a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>
Thanks,

Ferran
========================================================================Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:30:25 -0500
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From:         Lawrence Marshburne Jr <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Whoopi in King Arthur's Court Sunday
In-Reply-To:  Lawrence Marshburne Jr <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> "Twain's
dialect
              sources" (Nov  2,  4:56pm)
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A Knight in Camelot
                             NR, Drama, 1998 (96 minutes)
                             ABC, Sunday, Nov 8 7:00PM

         A 1990s scientist lands in King Arthur's court, where her technology
clashes
         with medieval ways. Adapted from Mark Twain's ``A Connecticut Yankee
in
         King Arthur's Court.'' (Premiere, CC, Stereo)

         Director: Roger Young
         Executive producer: Norman Rosemont
         Producer: Nick Gillott
         Actors: Whoopi Goldberg, Michael York, Amanda Donohoe, Ian Richardson,
         James Coombes, Robert Addie, Simon Fenton, Paloma Baeza

                           ©1995-8 Excite Inc., Tribune Media Services,========================================================================Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:02:08 -0800
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From:         Diane Peterson <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Organization: Queen City ISD
Subject:      HUCK FINN in the movies
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In addition to the PLEASANTVILLE reference, check out the scene in DEEP
IMPACT where Robert Duvall reads to the blinded astronaut.  The younger
guy talks about how he's from the TV/video generation, something like
that.  Duvall responds, clasping a copy of HUCK FINN and MOBY DICK.
Although he reads from the latter, it was a nice plug for the work.

Diane M. Peterson
Queen City High School
========================================================================Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:34:23 EST
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From:         Arthur Tegger <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Accurate quote
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What is the correct version of MT's "the coldest winter I ever spent was a
summer in San Francisco"?

Art
========================================================================Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:56:47 -0800
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From:         JOSEPH B MC CULLOUGH <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Accurate quote
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I do not believe that there is any evidence that Twain edver uttered these
words that are frequently attributed to him. Ralph Keyes, in his
engaging book, _Nice Guys Finish Seventh,_ points out that even San
Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen thought that Twain said this.
But to my knowledge no one has ever documented Twain's ever saying this.
Keyes suggests that its genesis may be an 1879 letter in which Twain
quoted a wag who, when asked is he'd ever seen such a cold winter,
replied, "Yes. Last summer."  Concluded Twain: "I judge he spent his
summer in Paris."  But I may be wrong.

Joe McCullough
========================================================================Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:29:18 -0500
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Subject:      Re: Accurate quote
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Rob Browning, of the MTP, published a short piece some years ago on this
saying, concluding that probably MT didn't say it--no one knows for sure.
But Joe Mc's formulation is essentially the same as Browning's
(Bancroftiana, 1981), except that Browning says the summer was '79 while
the letter was 1880.

Terry Oggel
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:10:18 -0500
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From:         Jane Tomaszewski <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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As a twenty-seven year veteran English teacher, I now must defend
including Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn in my eighth grade curriculum.    The
rookies on the staff feel that Tom Sawyer is too elementary for eighth
graders  and dated beyond relevance and Huck Finn is too difficult for
this level. Please help me save Tom and Huck.  I'm just an over-the-hill,
biding-my-time English teacher lost in the past unwilling to change. I'm
hoping to amass the support of experts to support my cause.
Thanks, J Tomaszewski
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:09:06 -0500
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From:         Ed Rash <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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Please consider the idea that Huck Finn is a terrific example of a defender
metaphysical morality!  The whole novel leads to the point where Huck must
make a decision about Jim.  He is "lobbied" by the notion that it would be
a "sin" to allow Jim to escape being returned to his  owners because that
would be equivalent to stealing property legally owned.  Huck was told that
he be damned if he let Jim go. One would think that this would be pretty
powerful stuff for a young fellow such as Huck. ( I never have known how
old he was supposed to be.}  But, even at his young age, he was able to
make the correct moral choice in the face of everything that he had been
taught, and say
I guess I will just have to go to hell and let Jim go.
I vote in favor of teaching this book to young people for this very reason.
By the way, I think that Ernest Hemingway may have had similar comments
about Huckleberry Finn, saying that the actual end of the novel was tha
point where Jim was let go.  The rest was a continuation of a "travelogue"
that was usually a part of many of Twain's writings because his audience
did enjoy his ability to take them to places that they would never go!
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:00:36 -0700
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From:         Mark Coburn <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Huck's age
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As a dozen other people will probably also inform Ed Rash, Huck does
tell us his approximate age:

"Buck looked about as old as me--thirteen or fourteen or along there,
though he was a little bigger than me."
--Chapter XVII (start of the Grangerford episode)

But Twain does some cheating here.  Huck is awfully savvy for his age
(maybe for ANY age!) in many ways, yet in other ways very naive.  Most
obviously--as countless critics have noted--Twain plays to genteel
values by keeping him nearly pre-sexual.

He's much fuzzier about the boys' age in THE ADVENTURES OF TOM SAWYER.
So much so that I've wondered if he was deliberately aiming at the most
diverse possible audience of children.  In the opening pages Tom seems
about 10, or maybe younger.  In the closing scenes he seems about 15,
and the narrator tells us he's nearly a man.  Yet the action spans one
endless summer.

Mark Coburn
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:24:35 -0800
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From:         Diane Peterson <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Organization: Queen City ISD
Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
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Dear Jane,

In response to your plea for support, I offer this:

1.  The first time I read TOM SAWYER was in a graduate level Twain
class.  Yes, it can be viewed as an entertaining children's book, but it
can also be examined as a text that illuminates points of Twain's style,
biographically-motivated choice of subject matter, and excellent methods
of characterization (an area very appropriate for analysis with your age
group).

2.  As to the relevancy of the text, you might offer your colleagues
some of the following views:
        "To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain
always a child.  For    what is the worth of human life, unless it is
woven into the life of our ancestors by the     records of history?"
--Cicero, ORATOR

        "Every fact and every work exercises a fresh persuasion over every
age
and every new           species of man.  History always enunciates new
truths."
--Nietzsche, THE WILL TO POWER

        "We can chart our future clearly and wisely only when we know the
path
which has led to        the present."  --Adlai Stevenson, speech

Now, I'm not claiming that TS and HF are authoratative historical
pieces.  However, they offer insight as to motivations and societal
constraints and freedoms.

3.  HUCK as too advanced...perhaps.  I choose to teach it to my 11th
grade classes, and we openly discuss the areas of race, class, familial
dysfunction, and book censorship.  I can see how HUCK could be a
flexible teaching tool if you chose to emphasize other aspects.  The
novel is definitely a rich one that could lend itself to other
approaches.

I hope this helps.  Also, check out www.ala.org for the "Freedom to
Read" statement.  Place a copy of that in everybody's boxes!

Diane M. Peterson
Queen City High School
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:30:09 -0600
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Jane, I am a Twain scholar, an African-American woman, who believes
sincerely in keeping the novels in the classroom. I jusr published a book
on Twain, _The Jim Dilemma: Reading Race in Huckleberry Finn_. I will help
you in any way that I can.

Jocelyn Chadwick-Joshua
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:07:03 -0500
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From:         Anton Verhulst <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Books about Twain
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And I just ordered it from Amazon.com.  I know that your note can be
construed as an advertisement but, thank you.

While on the subject of books about Twain, a recent reading of Ms.
Fishkin's "Lighting Out for the Territory" made me want to buy "Was Huck
Black?;...".  Unfortunately, the font size of the paperback edition is
way too small for my aging eyes (and for other eyes not so aged, I
suspect), so I decided to get the hard cover instead. To my surprise,
Amazon reports:

    Was Huck Black?; Mark Twain and African-American Voices
                  by Shelley Fisher Fishkin
                   Our Price: $30.00
                   Hardcover - 270 pages (April 1993)

     Not Yet Available: You may still order this title.
     We will ship it to you when it is released by the publisher.

A book published in 1993 that is "Not Yet Available"?  What Gives?

Tony V.
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:22:57 -0500
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Subject:      Re: Books about Twain
In-Reply-To:  <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> from "Anton Verhulst" at Nov 10,
              98 02:07:03 pm
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Tony,
It sounds like "out of print" in hardback to me.  You shouldn't have a
lot of difficulty finding it in a used book store in a university
community.

thanks, larry
========================================================================Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:35:54 -0500
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From:         John Bird <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Huck in 8th Grade
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As much as I support the right to teach controversial works, I'm going to
have to weigh in against teaching _Huckleberry Finn_ in 8th grade.  I will
preface by saying that, even though I'm now a college English professor, I
have taught in the public schools:  7th grade, 10th, 11th, and 12th.

I think Huck is too advanced for most 8th-graders.  The language poses a
problem (the vernacular, I mean), and the dialect really does (especially
Jim's).  Then there's the repeated use of "nigger," which some but not most
8th-graders would be mature enough to handle.  Most of all, the issues and
pervasive irony are, I think, best perceived by older, maturer readers.  A
devoted, experienced teacher (as I am sure Jane is!) could probably pull
this difficult task off.  But I would still say Huck is best left for a few
years later.

I don't mean that someone in the 8th grade shouldn't be able to read the
novel by herself or himself--I think I first read it (with small
understanding) in the 5th grade.  But for a class, other works would be
better.  I think teachers try to rush students sometimes.  I get so many
college students who are turned off to a novel like _The Scarlet Letter_ or
_Huckleberry Finn_ because they were forced to read them at too early an
age.

On the other hand, I think _Tom Sawyer_ is not too elementary or dated for
8th-graders.  When I taught 7th grade, I read the novel aloud over the
course of the year (a little Friday treat every week, something a teacher
of mine had done that left a big impression on me).  Students at that age
really enjoy reading about Tom's rebellion, his adventures, and his love
life.

Just my two cents!
========================================================================Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:47:03 EST
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From:         Kathy O'Connell <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Books about Twain
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Tony--

        Since I end up trying to get at least half a dozen out of print
books a year,
I've found university bookstores to be very helpful. But right here in
Hartford we also have a terrific resource for Twain: the aptly-named Jumping
Frog Bookstore, 585 Prospect Ave., West Hartford (okay, so it's West
Hartford,
a town distinguished only by being Noah Webster's birthplace and its law
prohibiting outdoor clotheslines). The number is 860-523-1622; hours are
12-8
daily.

Kathy O'Connell
========================================================================Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:20:11 -0500
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From:         Lawrence Marshburne Jr <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Huck in 8th Grade
In-Reply-To:  John Bird <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>> "Re: Huck in 8th Grade" (Nov 11,
              9:35am)
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Well, how about including the powerful "A True Story, Repeated Word for Word
as
I Heard It"?   Of course, it does have the n-word about 11 times while the
teachable _Tom Sawyer_ only has about 9.

thanks, larry
========================================================================Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:22:45 -0500
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From:         "Carol J. Peiffer" <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
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Depending on the students, I think Huck Fimm is suitable for any age, as
long as students can make sens of it.  I know the language is difficult for
some.

In the middle school where I teach art, one team of 7th graders read Huck
Finn.  The teachers created an interdisciplinary unit.  The Social Studies
teacher started by teaching about slavery and the climate of the day.  They
discussed the "nigger" references in an historical light.  The math classes
calculated mileage down the Mississippi.  I can't remember the Science
tie-in, but those classes did some related project or assignments.

The Language Arts classes had the gifted students read the entire book.
Regular students read an abridged version.  Students with learning
disabilities read summaries.  The students wrote a play based on Huck Finn.
Parents were invited to see the performance. The music classes performed
songs from the pre-Civil War era during scene changes.

As far as I know, there was not one parent complaint about using the book
---and I work in a school district where one vocal parent can result in
immediate changes in policy.

C.J. Peiffer
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:41:51 -0500
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From:         "Diana D. Reynolds" <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
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I did not encounter Huck Finn until almost 40 years-old--I started college
when my "baby" was in 2nd grade.  I read it a second time in a senior
seminar on Twain.  This novel, in my humble opinion, is THE greatest novel
written in the English language and I encourage my high school kids to
read it.  When my 15 year-old had to pick a book from a list in his honors
english class, I told him I would only help him with it if he chose Huck
Finn.  (I use my power whenever I can!)  He DID have considerable problems
with the language, and I often had to read passages aloud to him--then he
would "get it."

He still enjoyed being read to--which surprised me.  Maybe this is one way
educators can get around the language problem.

By the way, kudos to all who teach our kids in middle and high school and
are fighting to keep these books in our kids' hands--I, as a mother,
applaud you.

Diana D. Reynolds
Student, MA in English, IUPUI
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:28:56 -1000
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Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
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You bring up an interesting point. Years ago I read somewhere that
Abraham Lincoln read everything aloud (must have been hell in a
restaurant!) Supposedly, comprehension increases dramatically by reading
aloud. Even people who moved their lips--for which we were literally
beaten as kids--had better comprehension than those of us who did it
"right."

I always read poetry aloud and encouraged my children to do the same. On
difficult poems I would read aloud to them and then discuss it. For
Shakespeare we would literally divide up the parts and read the play.
They seemed to both enjoy it and understand the material better.

My questions to the educators on the list: Where does this stand now? Is
lip-moving approved or still frowned upon? Are students encouraged to
read aloud? Do teachers/professors read passages to students in higher
grades?

Aloha,

Mac Simpson
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:58:49 -0800
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Organization: Corning Community College
Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
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What an intriguing post (and so appropriate for a Twain list -- master
of dialogue/dialect)

When I teach literature to my community college students, I ALWAYS read
ALL poetry out loud to them -- and I can't tell you how many journal
entries I've read where the student says, "I just didn't get this poem
at all when I read it, but when you read it out loud in class, I
understood it/it made sense."  Poetry, and especially Shakespeare, was
meant to be heard, not read (although many poems are visually
stimulating as well) and I think the same can be said for a lot of
literature (a.k.a. novels, short stories, essays), ESPECIALLY Twain.
After all, isn't it all about language and how the words sound
together?  I know that even those students who are visual learners will
benefit from reading along and hearing the material.

Personally, I move my lips when I am reading something slowly that I
really want to understand and take notes about -- fiction is another
story.  How awful to be told not to do that and take advantage of
connecting all the parts of our language -- verbal, auditory, written --
together.
Again, just my two cents.

Thanks!
Renee L. Gross
Corning Community College
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:21:38 -0500
Reply-To:     Mark Twain Forum <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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Subject:      Re: Teaching Huck Finn to the masses.
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Some on the list have noted that Huck Finn can be read and studied on
different or multiple levels.  Any TEACHER can tell you that if it can
be read on these various levels it can be taught on these various
levels.  Any parent can tell you that they teach sexual matters on a
different level based upon age and maturity.  What issues one deals with
depends on the age and maturity of the child.  Jane, develop what you
wish to cover and the rationale for covering it with that age group and
then stick to the sticking place.  I teach the book in my C P English
III classes, but I have no doubt that I or any other "real" teacher
could justifiablely teach it at the 7th or 8th grade levels.
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:49:19 -0800
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Organization: Queen City ISD
Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
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I teach 11th grade English, an American lit. course.  My students beg me
to read to them, especially when we come to passages with complicated
sentence structure or involved dialect.  My East Texan accent lent
itself to _Huck Finn_ rather well!

Our previous principal had a real problem with this practice.  He said
he had been put to sleep by teachers reading aloud to him.  I have
found, though, that he must be in the minority.  The consensus in our
English department is that we procure the majority of our students' rapt
attention when we read aloud to them.

Reading aloud doesn't sustain a program, of course.  While students must
read aloud themselves and practice silent reading, the most interested
reactions I receive come from the times when I read to them.

My theory is that family life today is either too rushed or non-existent
for my students.  Some of my fondest childhood memories are of my dad
reading _The Chronicles of Narnia_ to me.  It met a vital need for
sharing and communicating and attention.  Perhaps my students get a
little of that when I read to them.  These are important processess no
matter how old you are.

Diane M. Peterson
Queen City High School
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:10:46 -0700
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Subject:      reading aloud
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just a quick note inspired by diana's post.  reading aloud is a great
pastime at any age.  a friend of mine and her husband read aloud to each
other regularly (i think it sounds romantic!), kids generally love to be
read aloud to even as tiny infants.  in fact, before the age of
television, i am under the impression that it was common for the family to
gather by the fire in the evenings and listen to work read aloud.  on a
very wet and cold camping trip last spring a friend of mine read a book
she had brought along aloud to me. and when i mentioned this to a friend
of mine at work, she told me her family has been doing that for years,
especially on camping trips.

much of twain's work is especially enjoyable when read aloud, after all at
his many lectures that's what he did--read from his works--for a large
portion of the lecture.

so--read early, read frequently, and read aloud!!

kathy farretta
northern arizona university
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:29:31 -0700
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Subject:      Roughing It in 8th Grade (Was: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade)
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In my own experience, I always had problems with Jim's dialect, too (as well
as that of the characters in Joel Chandler Harris's stories).  This is where
I realized that I had learned English by the "look-say" method.  :-)  (I
remember even skipping over Jim's dialogue when I first read HF.)

One day, I happened to try some of the exercises in one of R. Flesch's
pro-phonics books that help one learn to read phonetically.  After that, I
returned to Jim, and found it much easier to read his dialect.  (An object
lesson on the absurd methods of teaching English in our country!)

On the other hand, hearing someone speak dialect is much more entertaining
-- I think -- than reading it.  When I was a kid, I enjoyed hearing my Mom
reading Joel Chandler Harris out loud, but couldn't make any sense of it
when I tried to read it for myself.

Then again, you could be an outstanding public speaker, and maybe that's why
your students want to hear stuff out loud!

>Our previous principal had a real problem with this practice.  He said
>he had been put to sleep by teachers reading aloud to him.  I have
>found, though, that he must be in the minority.  The consensus in our
>English department is that we procure the majority of our students' rapt
>attention when we read aloud to them.

LOL!  I remember that happening when listening to a book, but more often
when the book was about algebra.

>Reading aloud doesn't sustain a program, of course.  While students must
>read aloud themselves and practice silent reading, the most interested
>reactions I receive come from the times when I read to them.
>
>My theory is that family life today is either too rushed or non-existent
>for my students.  Some of my fondest childhood memories are of my dad
>reading _The Chronicles of Narnia_ to me.  It met a vital need for
>sharing and communicating and attention.  Perhaps my students get a
>little of that when I read to them.  These are important processess no
>matter how old you are.

Can't go wrong with Chronicles of Narnia.  (I wonder if anyone has read
aloud the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings, and has gotten a good reaction from
it.)

It was John Bird -- I think -- who said that younger folk don't really get
the humor of HF (and I would add, even of that masterpiece, Tom Sawyer).  I
don't ever remember finding Twain funny when I was in High School but only
when I was in college.  I happened to be visiting my Mom for Christmas and
found *Roughing It* on her shelf; started reading it; found myself laughing,
and wondering if this guy Twain could keep it up through the rest of the
book.  I kept reading, kept laughing, and continued to read anything of
Twain's I could get my hands on, as faithfully and as fanatically as I had
done when collecting and reading comic books a few years earlier.

So why doesn't anyone ever read *Roughing It* out loud?

Cordially,

Vern
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:17:16 -0500
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Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
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Mac,

As a high school English teacher of thirty years, I find myself reading
most of the passages that I am reviewing or covering with the students
in certain classes because many cannot read.  Some do not even recognize
words that are very common that they know but do not recognize in print.

Nick Huffman
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:19:45 +0000
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Organization: ECNHS
Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
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> Do teachers/professors read passages to students in higher grades?
>
> Aloha,
>
> Mac Simpson

My 10th grade students are working with "Huck Finn" right now. We read
about every other chapter aloud. I try to choose those chapters the
students find particularly difficult, satirical, poignant, etc., based
on my past experience. For example, the start of the Wilks episode can
often be "too many" for some students. Many young people also struggle
with the dialect, particularly Jim's and Nat's. Reading aloud eases the
stress and increases the comprehension and fun. Still, I believe there
is an intimacy one feels with a book read privately, so I leave many
chapters for the students to experience in the privacy of their own
minds.

On a different thread, I choose to include "Huck Finn" in the curriculum
right after "A Raisin in the Sun," so we have a strong background in
dealing with racial issues with honesty and courage, not (like Lindner
in the play) through avoidance and denial.

Before we read even the first chapter of "Huck," though, we read an
essay I copied from "English Journal" a few years back. It was written
by an African-American girl from Bryn Mawr, (I believe her name is
Delancy, but I don't have it with me at home right now), and does a fine
job of emphasizing the offensive nature of the hateful word "nigger,"
while defining Twain's use of the word for realism and, moreover, for
satire. Perhaps someone on the list has the issue of "English Journal"
that was dedicated to dealing with "Huck Finn." I loaned mine out and
never got it back.

Stanton Nesbit
Eau Claire North High School
University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire
========================================================================Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:56:45 -0700
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Subject:      reading aloud
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over the summer i had a long commute so i listened to books on tape:
_Roughing It_, and _Life on the Mississippi_, and some of Twain's short
stories.  Norman Dietz reads both of the novels for Books on Tape, i
think, and does an awesome job.  I laughed hysterically through most of
_Life_ !! maybe if someone wants to use these ideas we've been discussing
about reading aloud to their class...but they are afraid of the dialect,
they can use a Books on Tape version.

p.s. vern--it *was* _The Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ my romantic
friends started out reading aloud to each other! :)
========================================================================Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:06:04 -0500
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Subject:      Re: reading aloud
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I have listened to a number of Norman Dietz' tapes. He works for
Recorded Books, Inc. He is wonderful to listen to. He also does
in person performances that are great too. If you would like to
get him for a reading it is well worth it. We have had him here
twice and he was a hit each time. He is very nice to deal with too.

Mary Lou Caskey
Mid-York Library System
Utica, NY
========================================================================Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:10:41 -0800
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Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
Comments: To: Diane Peterson <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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Do college teachers read out loud to their students?  This one does, and,
more, demands that students read out loud, too, not just the literature
we're reading, but samples of their own writing.  I hear them stumble
constantly, not because they can't read, but because they've read so much
bad prose that they've learned--indeed, they've often been explicitly
taught--to skim. They need to be shown the value of each individual word,
and reading aloud is the quickest way.

Gregg
========================================================================Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:58:45 -0800
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From:         "David S. Barber" <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Tom and Huck in the 8th grade
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Sue Harris is probably right that controversy over Huck Finn is less than
one might think, probably because the sites of controversy get publicized
out of proportion to their numbers. And if in fact nine out of ten teachers
are using HF in class, that may be encouraging.  Then again, it may not.
Although the recent contributors to the MT Forum on this issue all sound
very conscientious, I'm not sure this is a representative group.  I was a
bit appalled, reading through articles relating to the Pennsylvania NAACP's
campaign earlier this year to remove Huck as a required text, to come across
some statements by teachers that suggested, at least, inadequate
preparation.  One teacher, for example, said  regarding the use of "nigger":
"The students know it had a much different connotation years ago than it
does today".  [Why then did Twain himself stop using it in public?]  Another
said, "The interesting thing is Mark Twain was anti-slavery," as though that
was some big deal in the 1870-80s.  Then there was Judith Krug, director of
the Office for Intellectual Freedom for the American Library Association in
Chicago: "Samuel Clemens or Mark Twain wrote this book as a cry against
slavery and he did it in the context of the world at that time," she said.
"Jim's name is Nigger Jim in the book because that's exactly what he would
have been called at that time." Talk about making pronouncements without
knowing the book!

        And I don't see anyone taking seriously, even acknowleding, the
arguments
that Jonathan Arac has assembled in Huckleberry Finn:  Idol and Target.  The
question of when and how to use HF in the public schools is still, I think,
open, and I hope it is not taboo on the Forum to talk about it this way.

        [I'm a college teacher; I've never taught in the public schools,
though
I've sent five children through them.]

Dave Barber
U. of Idaho, Moscow, ID
========================================================================Date:         Sun, 15 Nov 1998 01:45:26 -0500
Reply-To:     Mark Twain Forum <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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From:         "Carol J. Peiffer" <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Huck's age
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I think Twain got the characteristics of that age group just right.

As a teacher, I deal with students that are in the 13-14 age range.  In
some ways they act like 17-18 year olds.  Then, they turn around and act
incredibly naive, even childish. Some of the girls go to the prom with
older boys, yet still play with dolls. The boys want to be treated like
adults, yet they play with toys and will do just about anything for a piece
of candy.  Of course, to adults, it seems like they want to be adults when
we want them to remain children and when we want them to act mature, they
act like 3rd-graders. It's the nature of the beast.  And Twain understood
that.

The savvy Huck had learned to take care of himself.  The naive Huck was
still a boy.

C.J. Peiffer
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:21:53 -0800
Reply-To:     Mark Twain Forum <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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From:         Harriet Smith <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Mark Twain letters databases now available
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I am pleased to announce that the Mark Twain Project's catalogs of letters
by and to Mark Twain (formerly known as UCCL and UCLC) are now available
on-line in a form that can be searched. Please visit us and take a look.
Suggestions for improvement or correction are welcome, and may be sent
directly to me at the email address above. You may go directly to the
databases at

http://library.berkeley.edu/BANC/MTP/database/

or use the link on our website at

http://library.berkeley.edu/BANC/MTP/

And while you are visiting us, please take a moment to view the abbreviated
on-line version of the exhibition currently open in the Heller Gallery of
The Bancroft Library--Mark Twain at Large: His Travels Here and Abroad.
Printed catalogs are also available, for $10. For further information, see
the exhibition website.

http://library.berkeley.edu/BANC/Exhibits/MTP/

Harriet Smith, Mark Twain Project
========================================================================Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:48:01 -0800
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From:         Diane Peterson <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Organization: Queen City ISD
Subject:      Expurgated Text
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Does anyone know where I can find John H. Wallace's expurgated edition
of _The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_?  I've tried amazon.com with no
luck.  It's for a research project...I'm not supporting it!

Diane M. Peterson
Queen City High School
========================================================================Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:03:58 EST
Reply-To:     Mark Twain Forum <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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From:         Timothy Short <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Twain's Fascination with Language
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I am posting this in hopes of compiling responses for a project of mine.  I
am
concerned with the sociolinguistic aspects (i.e., the relationship of
language
shaping society and vice versa) in Mark Twain's work.  I ask, To what degree
does Twain view language as a shaper of reality?  Obviously, there is a
decided fascination with dialect and lack of understanding in Twain's work.
Another tangent: Does Twain see language as a pre-determined cycle or an
undetermined aspect of human existence?   If you do not want your name cited
in my little project, please do not reply.

Thanks,
Tim Short
Indiana University at Fort Wayne
========================================================================Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:26:07 -0800
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From:         Gregg Camfield <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: Twain's Fascination with Language
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Look at "The Secret History of Eddypus" for some of Twain's remarks on the
shaping power of language and the difficulties of "translating" one
person's ideas to another.

Gregg
========================================================================Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:52:29 -0500
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From:         Jim Zwick <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      You Caught Me Dancing
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I came across an entertainment listing today for an upcoming
performance of a one-woman play about Katy Leary called "You
Caught Me Dancing."  It will be included with another one-woman
show about painter Georgia O'Keefe in a Stage Theatre
presentation at Krause House, 1300 Bulverde Road, Bulverde,
Texas. Shows will be at 8:00 p.m. Dec. 12 and 2:30 p.m. Dec. 13.
For information, call (830) 438- 2339 or e-mail <a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>

Coming from the Northeast, I of course assumed that Bulverde
couldn't be more than a stone's throw away from anyone living in
the Southwest so I wrote to Barbara Schmidt about it.  She has
compiled this additional information.

The play was written by Bernard Sabath of North Carolina and was
published by

Dramatic Publishing
311 Washington St.
Woodstock, Illinois  60098
Phone - 800-448-7469

They take credit card orders.  The script is catalog number Y17
and costs $5.50 ($8.00 including 1st class postage).

Bulverde is somewhere near San Antonio.

I had never heard of this play before.  Has anyone seen it?

Jim Zwick
========================================================================Date:         Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:09:24 -0600
Reply-To:     Mark Twain Forum <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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From:         Bill Cosgrove <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Terri Chale-Egan /Huck Finn
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>Dr Cosgrove, if it would not be too much of an inconvenience, could you
post
>the following question on the TWAIN forum you are a part of?
>
>    "I am looking for alternative theories or sources of information
>regarding the reason "Huck and Tom Among the Indians" was never finished.
I
>have the article by Dr. Walter Blair from the 1968 Life magazine article,
>and I have read all available notes and letters and can find very few
>references to any of the sequels, but specifically to "Huck and Tom Among
>the Indians".  I would appreciate any information at e-mail <a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>"
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:21:39 -0800
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From:         "Ted W. Magnuson" <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      texts of Mark Twain's Speeches
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          In his day, Mark Twain was a noted lecturer.   What are the
best sources to consult to find the texts of  his speeches?   My
suspicion is that his books weren't neccesarily the subject of these
speeches.   Did he speak more along the lines of "social commentary?"
I'd be very interested in hearing responses from fellow members of the
Forum on this question.   Thank you.

Ted Magnuson
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:22:48 -0600
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From:         jon s miller <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: texts of Mark Twain's Speeches
Comments: To: "Ted W. Magnuson" <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
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Ted,

Try Paul Fatout, ed., _Mark Twain Speaking_ (Iowa City: U Iowa P, 1976).
It contains material from 195 speeches as well as a chronology of his
speaking career.

Jon Miller
U. Iowa
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:53:21 -0500
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From:         Jim Zwick <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Re: texts of Mark Twain's Speeches
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The 1910 edition of Mark Twain's Speeches is online at:
http://marktwain.miningco.com/library/speeches/bl_contents.htm

There are also some great resources on his lecture tours online at
Stephen Railton's Mark Twain and His Times site:

Mark Twain On Stage
http://etext.virginia.edu/railton/onstage/onstgehp.html

Jim Zwick
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:17:44 -0600
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From:         Shelley Fisher Fishkin <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Mark Twain Circle events at the MLA
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Happy Thanksgiving!

 The Mark Twain Circle is planning a number of interesting events at the
Modern Language Association Convention in San Francisco, December
27th-30th. Here's the schedule:

  (*) On December 27th from 9:00-10:15 p.m.in the Yosemite Room A of the
San Francisco Hilton, the Mark Twain Circle will sponsor a roundtable  on
"The Author as Public Intellectual,"  a discussion that will explore what
happens when someone parlays his fame and recognition as a writer into a
bully pulpit from which to engage the social and political issues of his
day. Centered on Twain, and his engagement with such issues as imperialism
and copyright, but branching out to explore the phenomenon in general, this
session will include Jim Zwick (Syracuse University), Siva Vaidyanathan
(Wesleyan Univesity), Fred Kaplan (Queens College and CUNY Graduate
Center), the writer David Bradley, and  Shelley Fisher Fishkin (Univ. of
Texas, Austin) as chair.
   (+) On December 28th from 9:00-9:30 a.m.in the Mark Twain Circle Suite
at the  Downtown Marriott there will be a breakfast-hour session featuring
Philip Fanning, a San Francisco-based independent scholar who has written
an intriguing book manuscript on Twain and Orion; he will address the
question,  "Did Mark Twain Get his Anti-Slavery Views from Orion?"
   (+) On December 28th from 5-6:l5 p.m.in the Mark Twain Circle Suite at
the  Downtown Marriott there will be a cocktail-hour session at which
1) Gregg Camfield (University of the Pacific) will speak with us briefly
about Twain in San Francisco  and promises everyone interested in doing a
self-guided walking tour of Twain's  San Francisco all they need to know;
and
 2) Robert H. Hirst, General Editor of the Mark Twain Project, will  catch
us up on what's going on at the Mark Twain Project.
   (+) On December 28th from 9:00-10:00 p.m.in the Mark Twain Circle Suite
at the  Downtown Marriott  we look forward to a conversation with Hal
Holbrook after we honor him with an award from the Twain Circle.  (If there
are any last-minute changes in Holbrook's schedule, I will post something
on the Mark Twain Forum).
    (+) On December 29th, from 5-6:30 there will be a cocktail-hour session
in the Twain Circle Suite  at the  Downtown Marriott featuring a paper by
Debbie Lopez (University of Texas, San Antonio) and Joe Towson
(Spartanburg, SC) entitled "A Portable Mississippi: The Metaphor of the
Market in Twain's Short Fiction.
    (*) On December 30th from 8:30-9:45 a.m. there will be a session on
"Mark Twain: New Perspectives on Established Works" in the Union Square 12
room of the San Francisco Hilton. Chaired by Laura E. Skandera-Trombley
(Coe College), the session will feature the following  papers:
1.  "Mark Twain as Western Outlaw: Language and Manhood in Roughing It and
Life on the Mississippi," Joseph L. Coulombe (U of Delaware)
2.  "'a man nobody wouldn't be ashamed of': Drinking and Temperance in
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn," Rosemarie L. Coste (U of Texas)
3.  "'The Crying Defect of My Character': Hank Morgan, Mark Twain, and the
Business of Determinism," Susanne Weil (Whittier C)

  Events marked with (*) are part of the formal convention program
(sometimes the MLA is rather vigilant about requiring convention
registration for attendance.) Events marked with (+) are in the Mark Twain
Circle/American Humor Studies Assn. Suite and do not require convention
registration.

         [The San Francisco Downtown Marriott is on Fourth St. between
Market and Mission. The room number for the Mark Twain Circle/American
Humor Studies Association suite won't be assigned until the convention.  To
find out the room number, look for signs in the MLA registration  area or
call Shelley Fisher Fishkin  either at Marriott's main number or from a
house phone in the Marriott when you arrive. It is not necessary to be
registered for the Convention to attend events in the Mark Twain Circle
Suite].

I look forward to seeing many of you in San Francisco!

Shelley Fisher Fishkin
University of Texas
========================================================================Date:         Thu, 26 Nov 1998 12:16:59 -0600
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Subject:      Mark Twain Circle to Honor Hal Holbrook in San Francisco
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        Happy Thanksgiving!

        I am delighted to report that at this writing  Hal Holbrook is
planning to come to San Francisco on December 28th to be honored in person
by  the Mark Twain Circle of America with a Lifetime Achievement Award.
         The award will be presented the night of December 28th at 9:00
P.M. in the Mark Twain Circle Suite in the San Francisco Downtown Marriott.
The presentation will be followed by an informal conversation with Holbrook
about his forty years of portraying Twain on stage.
        I loook forward to sharing this special occasion with you!

         (The San Francisco Downtown Marriott is on Fourth St. between
Market and Mission. The room number for the Mark Twain Circle/American
Humor Studies Association suite won't be assigned until the convention.  To
find out the room number, look for signs in the MLA registration area or
call Shelley Fisher Fishkin  either at Marriott's main number or from a
house phone in the Marriott when you arrive. It is not necessary to be
registered for the Convention to attend events in the Mark Twain Circle
Suite).


Shelley Fisher Fishkin
University of Texas
========================================================================Date:         Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:49:11 -0800
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Subject:      Recent request for cites on texts of Mark Twain's Speaking
              Engagements
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Thank you everyone who offered cites on Twain's speeches.   I'm
contacting U Iowa post haste to see if they've got a dusty copy of their
1976 book laying about.

Ted Magnuson
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:54:25 -0600
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From:         Hal Bush <<a href="/cgi-bin/wa?LOGON=A3%3D9811%26L%3DTWAIN-L%26E%3Dquoted-printable%26P%3D4901%26B%3D--PART-BOUNDARY%253D.19811021643.ZM4054.ncsu.edu%26T%3Dtext%252Fplain%2B%3B%2520charset%3Diso-8859-1%26pending%3D" target="_parent" >[log in to unmask]</a>>
Subject:      Twain's sexual identity

For ALA in May, I am hoping to submit a paper on my findings regarding the
US cultural response to Andrew Hoffman's controversial thesis about Twain's
possible gay sexual activities out west.  My paper is not interested in
either confirming or eschewing the historical activities of Twain;
instead, I read the wildly uneven response in terms of the current
atmosphere of the culture wars.

Does anyone know of any analytical pieces/ essays about Hoffman's gay
thesis, particularly ones that view the episode as culturally revealing?

Dr. Harold K. Bush, Jr.
Saint Louis University
========================================================================Date:         Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:55:25 -0600
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Subject:      ALA CFPapers

Here is a simple question -- I am not able to locate a call for ALA, if
indeed one has yet been issued.  I would greatly appreciate it if a
LIST-member could send me privately the Call for Papers for the Mark Twain
Circle's sessions at May's ALA conference in Baltimore?

Dr. Harold K. Bush, Jr.
Saint Louis University