==================== HES POSTING ================= Evan Jones wrote: > There appear to be some stray arguments in the story from Pat > Gunning. > > I would have thought the scholars returning from Europe brought back a > mind-set as much conducive to a nascent Institutionalism as to a nascent > neoclassicism (vide Joseph Dorfman, The Role of the German Historical > SChool in AMerican Economic Thought, AER, May 1955.) As for an 'economics > of property rights and freedom' I can't for the life of me see how any > version of neoclassicism provides fallow ground for such development. > There was a political, ideological and cultural bunfight on these issues > at the turn of century. (vide William Forbath, Law and the Shaping of the > American Labor Movement, esp. Ch.5) anybody lurching into neoclassicism > would be seeking to escape a treatment of property rights and freedom > rather than be seeking to analyse them. Wesley Mitchell was certainly a > pivotal figure, but not in any dilution of neoclassicism. He was > thankfully concerned with bigger issues. And so on. Thanks, Evan, for you comment. My views on the "economics of private property rights and freedom to exchange," were based on a recognition of the rather universal rejection of socialism by various of the early writers who I mentioned and who were part of the "new economics" referred to around the turn of the century in American journals, specifically by Thorstein Veblen. This is pretty easy to document. J. B. Clark is perhaps the best example. In my opinion, the rejection of socialism was based not on political or ideological views but on the belief that theoretical developments in economics rendered the reasoning used by the advocates of socialism simplistic and irrelevant. You can find these arguments, in different forms, in the early writings of Menger, Clark, and Walras. (I'm not so sure at the moment about Jevons and Marshall, or I would include their names also.) Those "early American neoclassicals" who followed these leaders, accepted their arguments and embraced the new economics. I agree that the mindset brought back from Europe by the early American "economists" was also conducive to institutionalism, perhaps even more so. Clark, for example, did not study Austrian economics. However, the same economists who studied German historicism were also, by virtue of their language training, prepared to study Menger and other early Austrian writers as well as Walras, if they could make sense of the math. And many, if not most, eventually did. My claim is that institutionalism did not fit so well with the prevailing desire of academic economists to communicate about the system of private property rights and freedom to exchange in America. Nevertheless, you are correct to point out that, if we speak of all the returning "economists," they brought back both ideas. And, one might go on to say, the battle lines were joined. (It is worth keeping in mind that prior to the new wave of economics toward the end of the 19th century in America, economics was often taught as part of moral philosophy by church leaders.) There were certainly plenty of emerging institutions to study in America. But the question is: was the study of these institutions "political economy?" Although I am not an expert on the history of institutionalism, my understanding is that the institutionalists were more successful in political circles than in academic circles. Historians who are interested mainly in politics, ideology, and culture are likely to perceive the competition between neoclassicism and institutionalism through these lenses (your reference to the American labor movement for example). Historians of economic _thought_ (by which I mean theory) have a different problem, it seems to me. They want to identify "pure theory" and to trace its history. Well, that's my somewhat singular view. Some on this list (judging from our past discussions) are not very interested in tracking pure theory. Indeed, many seem to reject the notion that one can identify real theoretical advances. As I see it, a good history of thought person must be sensitive to politics, ideology, and culture but, more importantly, must know how to recognize an advance in theory when she sees it. This is a stiff requirement. But this discussion of institutional economics seems a bit beside the point of my original comment. The original question was not about the "clash" between institutionalism and the new economics but about the history of neoclassical economics in America. I do not view that history as a history of politics or ideology, although these elements were sometimes present. I see it as the emergence of the new marginalist and subjectivist (individualist) economics, followed by an institutionalization of the teaching of and research in various compartmentalized economic subjects. The successive participants in this institutionalization and compartmentalization caused it to develop a momentum of its own. This made it possible for people to become notable "neoclassical economists" in the eyes of modern professional economists even though they never learned the theory lessons taught by their fore bearers. Pat Gunning, Sultan Qaboos University, Oman ============ FOOTER TO HES POSTING ============ For information, send the message "info HES" to [log in to unmask]