Hi all, I am watching this discussion with interest. I am afraid I can not agree with you Peter about the clues from food security, to me food security programs are saying that the level of people income is okay and that it is okay that poor people have to turn to programs to meet their basic needs. Thus we create a gatekeeping system for meeting basic needs with no opportunity to claim the right to those needs being met. Can poor people claim that the food bank did not adequately meet their needs? NO! But as we weave an increasingly complex system for poor people to maneuver to meet their needs we drain energy away from people. And the more programs we set up the more problems we create. S ---------- From: Peter Elson[SMTP:[log in to unmask]] I suggest that there may be some clues about the contribution health promotion could play with respect to low income groups which, in fact, are occuring in areas such as food security. First, the "top down" social marketing model has to be put aside. Second, health promotion has to be slowly and delicately weaved into strategies and supports which meet the day-to-days needs of people, whether that be soup kitchens or food banks. Third, eat some humble pie - health promotion is not a substitute for food, literacy, education, housing and a good job. Peter R. Elson