Hi,
Wow! THANKS!!!!! for all who wrote with help on my progress question.
It's nice to know there are helpful people in this world and that they seem
to be overrepresented in HES :-)))
Although most sent me suggestions directly, a few sent them to the list. I
didn't post these to the list b/c I didn't want to burden people, so
instead I took the liberty of compiling them to send to my friend. I sent
a quick note of thanks to those who sent messages to the list and explained
that I wasn't going to post all of the messages.
Well, lo and behold, I got this reply:
At 4:34 PM 7/29/96, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> The nice thing about sending things to the list is that usually other
> people besides the person who asked the question are interested in
> references they aren't familiar with and so on. I know I'd be interested
> to know what others have replied to you. But it's up to you. Sometimes
> for reference requests the inquirer will collect everything they receive
> and send it in one post to the list for other's information. Cheers.
Sounds like a good idea to me (and I have enjoyed reading such compiled
messages on other occasions) and so, WITH AN APOLOGY TO ANYONE WHO HATES
LONG MESSAGES OR IS COMPLETELY UNINTERESTED IN THIS TOPIC (DELETE THIS
MESSAGE NOW!), here's what I received on the topic of "progress:"
(The ones that say "HES Posting" were not posted initially, but, of course,
you have them now.)
***
Hey Bert!
Just got back from 10 days in the UK, mostly in Scotland. Beautiful
country. Going through my 7 million e-mail messages I ran across your
request. You might steer your friend to CAPITALISM AND PROGRESS by Bob
Goudzwaard, a Dutch economist and sometimes MP. It's worth reading. For
an understanding of what the world was like in the pre-industrial era,
Peter Laslett's THE WORLD WE HAVE LOST is hard to beat. The first chapter
alone is eye opening. Richard Easterlin's "Does Economic Growth Improve
the Human Lot? Some Empirical Evidence," in Paul David and Melvin Reder,
eds., NATIONS AND HOUSEHOLDS IN ECONOMIC GROWTH also might be of help.
Also possibilities: William Baumol, et al., PRODUCTIVITY AND AMERICAN
LEADERSHIP: THE LONG VIEW and, from a rather different viewpoint, I'LL
TAKE MY STAND by Twelve Southerners, a 1930s agrarian classic. Finally,
Clifford Cobb et al. published "If the GDP Is Up, Why Is America Down?" in
THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY in October 1995. The argument is flawed but
interesting.
Hope this helps.
--Neil
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Neil T. Skaggs
Department of Economics
Illinois State University
Campus Box 4200
Normal, IL 61790-4200
(309) 438-7204
***
Bert,
Here are some ideas for your friend:
Michael Novak, "The Catholic Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" (1993).
Peter Berger, "The Capitalist Revolution" (1986)
Both of these books try to argue, to some extent, that discontent
with capitalism arises from a misunderstanding of what it is and
what it does. Both argue that capitalism offers real progress...
material, ethical, and social.
Robert Samuelson, "The Good Life and its Discontents" (1995)
This book is less theoretical than the other two and offers
a look at the tremendous changes in the quality of American
life in the fifty years since WWII. He argues that the discontent
with modern capitalism is largely misplaced.
I hope these help.
Brad
Bradley W Bateman <[log in to unmask]>
and
Bert,
I see in re-reading your note that your friend was probably
looking for "critiques" of modern progress rather than defenses
of progress. I still think that Samuelson's book would be a
good place for them to look as it is heavily cross-referenced.
Brad
***
Bert,
Actually, I do have a few ideas for readings about progress. In fact, in
college our senior seminar was on the topic of progress. (Mainly we read
literature.) Anyway, here are some suggestions for readings, which you
could send to the list:
Here are a few possible readings on the idea of progress.
1. On the current state of the world. Are we going to hell in a
handbasket?
Yes: _State of the World_, published every year, Lester Brown is
the main author. Norton.
No: Julian Simon, ed., _The State of Humanity_, Blackwell: 1995
Also relevant is Julian Simon's classic book on population,
_The Ultimate Resource_
2. Classic thinkers
Malthus, of course.
The utopian socialists were great believers in progress. Read
Robert Owen or Charles Fourier. Read about utopian
experiments in the US (a survey is _Heavens on Earth_, but
I forget the author).
The socialists' believe in the perfectability of man could be
contrasted with Catholic theology. (Augustine perhaps)
An interesting book in the socialist tradition is Edward Bellamy's
_Looking Backward_.
I'm sure there is much more, but this is what I can think of at the
moment.
Joyce Burnette
[log in to unmask]
***
Sender: "Mathew B. Forstater" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: HES: Re: HES: Progress
================= HES POSTING =================
Robert L. Heilbroner, (1973), "The Paradox of Progress: Decline and Decay
in
the _Wealth of Nations_" _Journal of the History of Ideas_, April,
reprinted in A.S. Skinner and T. Wilson(eds.): _Essays on Adam Smith_,
Oxford U. Press).
Dona Richards, (1980), "European Mythology: The Ideology of 'Progress'",
in M. K. Asante and A. S. Vandi (eds.): _Contemporary Black Thought:
Alternative Analyses in Social and Behavioral Science_, Sage Publishing.
John Stuart Mill (1987[1848]), "Of the Stationary State" Chapter VI, Book
IV, of _Principles of Political Economy_ Augustus Kelley reprint.
E. F. Schumacher, _Small is Beautiful_ and the literatures that followed
from this book, or relate to similar themes, e.g., appropriate technology,
social ecology, ecological economics, zero-growth, sustainability,
critique of 'development', etc. Some authors include Hazel Henderson,
Vandana Shiva, Paul Ekins, Wolfgang Sachs, Herman Daly, Donella Meadows,
Barry Commoner, Murray Bookchin.
Also works in some of the anarchist traditions, e.g. Peter Kropotkin.
***
In the 1960s edition of THEORY OF ECONOMIC PROGRESS C.E. Ayres added a
preface that dealt with the issue of progress in a way that is very
germane to your query. The entire book is of course relevant as w
--
[log in to unmask] Phones: TuTh 970-491-6891
James Ronald Stanfield MWF 970-221-0671
2106 Kirkwood Court FAX: 970-491-2925
Fort Collins CO 80525-1920
***
In response to your notice passed on by Anne Mayhew, I have the following
suggestion.
>From a Protestant perspective a Dutch economist by the name of Bob
Goudzwaard
has written a book, later translated into english entitled _Captialism and
Progress: A Diagnosis of Western Society_. (1979, now out of print and I
believe the copywright is with the Toronto Institute of Christian Studies).
The
book critiques the notion of progress which grew out of the enlightenment
and is
still with us today. I have used it in my economics senior seminar
(undergraduate) course and it works quite well.
Timothy J. Essenburg
Associate Professor of Economics
Bethel College
3900 Bethel Drive
St. Paul, MN 55112
office: (612)638-6296 (has voice mail)
fax: (612)638-6001
e-mail: [log in to unmask] OR [log in to unmask]
***
From: "Mr. e" <[log in to unmask]>
Bert,
Bear with my immodesty: I think my piece (forthcoming in HOPE) titled:
"Adam Smith's Moral Philosophy: The Role of Religion and Its Relationship
to
Philosophy and Ethics in the Evolution of Society" might be of interest.
Since it's not published yet, I attach a copy to this.
Hope all is well with you.
jerry
Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:HOPE_96.DOC 1 (BINA/MSWD) (0000FA84)
[ATTACHMENT NOT INCLUDED--ASK JERRY FOR IT IF YOU WANT IT]
Jerry Evensky
Department of Economics
***
Sender: GREG RANSOM <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: HES: RE: HES: Progress
================= HES POSTING =================
On the idea of 'progress' see Robert Nisbet, _The History of the
Idea of Progress_, Robert Bowler, _Charles Darwin: The Man and His
Influence_, and the essays in Matthew Nitecki (ed.), _Evolutionary
Progress_.
In economics, you might see Douglass North & Robert Paul Thomas,
_The Rise of the Western World_, and Nathan Rosenberg & L. E. Birdzell,
_How the WEst Grew Rich_.
Greg Ransom
***
From: "Charles B. Forcey III" <[log in to unmask]>
A friend forwarded me your request for sources on progress. A bit off the
beaten track is Robert A. Nisbet's The Idea of Progress. He is a
conservative sociologist with a Tocqueville/Burke angle on most things, but
comes out surprisingly supportive of the idea of progress. Best of luck.
CF
***
I suppose your friend already knows of this source, but the title of her
course reminded me of an old, but I think possibly useful book by
John Bagnell Bury, __The Idea of Progress__, originally published in 1920
and
brought out in an American edition with a long introduction by Charles
Beard
in 1931. The book makes no mention of the religious dimension of the
question--but I assume your friend's theologian colleague can supply that
dimension. Bury traces out, in very broad strokes, the development of
ideas
regarding the progress of man and civilization from roughly the 16th
century
to roughly the mid-19th, with the bulk of his attention given to the French
authors from Decartes forward to Montesquieu, Voltaire, Rousseau, the
"economists and encyclopaedists" of the mid-18th and beyond to the authors
of
the Revolution--chiefly, Condorcet and Godwin. Here, of course, the story
touches upon names more traditionally associated with economics--Malthus,
but
also, to a lesser extent, Hume. After the Revolution, Bury carries the
story
forward to Saint-Simon and Comte as well as Say, Hugo, and lesser writers.
The work is indeed old, but I am not aware of another that covers the same
ground as extensively. Perhaps it might be of some help to your friend.
Glenn Hueckel
Purdue University
[log in to unmask]
***
Dear Bert,
You might suggest Robert Nisbet's, History of the Idea of Progress to yo
ur friend. I think systematic treatment of the issues by mainstream ec
onomists (i.e. those for whom progress is an article of faith) is rare.
There is the famous passage in Mill's Principles about the stationary st
ate not being all that bad. However, I think you have to go back to the
eighteenth century for anything the least bit systematic. For Hume and
Smith the issue was couched in terms of the commerce/civilization link.
Some of Hume's Essays deal with the issue, and the classic text in Smith
is Book III of the Wealth of Nations on the economic history of Europe
following the fall of Rome. There is also food for thought in The Theor
y of Moral Sentiments, since it shows that Smith was very much aware of
the ambiguity of the morality of seeking material wealth.
In the modern era there was a debate in the late 60s and 70s on
economic growth. On the con side were E.J. Mishan, Tibor Scitovsky, and
Fred Hirsch. Wilfred Beckerman argued the pro side. Nordhaus was a sev
ere critic of the Limits to Growth model, and Tobin/Nordhaus introduced
the Measure of Economic Welfare. None of these, as far as I know went
into religious or deep philosophical argument. There was (and still is)
Heilbroner and Daly, of course, on the con side as well. The Review of
Social Economy has an entire recent issue devoted to environment and
growth issues (Winter, 1995).
If your friend wants to get into environmental issues, the literature
quickly becomes huge with the current focus on sustainability. But, the
re has also been some exchange between economists (Alan Randall, William
Schulze, Allen KNeese to name three) and environmental ethicists such as
Mark Sagoff on the appropriate value perspectives for environmental poli
cy.
My general impression of the whole field is this. The critics are more
focused on what they are against. The views of "mianstream economists"
are scattered around in off-hand remarks here and there, and in many cas
es remain only implicit. Systematic treatises then have been produced
almost exclusively by the opposition.
I hope this helps your friend. Let me know if you want detailed referen
ces. I enjoyed seeing you again in Vancouver, and I hope your family
vacation was enjoyable. I'm in the throws of putting together my book
on Smith.
Best regards,
Jeff Young
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
THE END
***
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