I have very little (if anythng) to add to the discussion on the meaning of
Smith's title "The Wealth of Nations". I find, however Steve's last remark
interesting to me. As it hs been stated, the English word "wealth"
translates as richesse in French. The first meaning of richesse in French
or riqueza in Castillian, riquezze in Italian, riqueza in Portugues,
riquesa in Catalan concerns to oppulence, rather than prosperity.
Therefore, the first meaning of Smith's title in Latin derived languages
concerns to a state of things, i.e., how a country became wealthy, rather
than how it creates wealth as a continous process, which is the concern of
the book.
Regards
Fidel Aroche
2015-06-22 1:19 GMT-05:00 Steve Kates <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> I found Tony's discussion of Adam Smith's meaning of the word "wealth"
> very much in accord with what I and probably most people think Smith meant.
> But that is in English. What I have found so notable about the earlier
> postings is the way "wealth" is translated. Does someone who reads the
> words, "the wealth of nations", but in a different language, hear something
> different? Would someone who comes across the book in French (or Turkish)
> think it is about "the opulence of nations"? A book like Piketty's, for all
> its sales, does not seem to have become much of an influence in English
> speaking countries. What I am getting at is this: when someone reads
> "richesse" in French, do they think of Versailles rather than pin
> factories?
>
> On 19 June 2015 at 08:48, Tony Aspromourgos <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>>
>>
>> I published a very detailed interpretation of Smith's political economy
>> and the prehistory of its fundamental concepts in 2009 - as it happens,
>> with the title, *The Science of Wealth* (Routledge). One of those
>> fundamental concepts, of course, is "wealth". An exhaustive examination of *all
>> *Smith's uses of that term, in all his writings (pp. 30-35 of my book)
>> makes it clear that wealth is not understood as a stock, but rather (in
>> relation to nations), as the flow of annual national product. I may add
>> that the sense in which Smith's political economy is a science of "wealth"
>> I think also is about its materialism: Smith's science is about the
>> production and distribution of material things (not, e.g., a science of
>> choice, and not primarily a psychological science).
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony Aspromourgos
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Societies for the History of Economics [[log in to unmask]] on behalf
>> of Wells, Julian [[log in to unmask]]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 18 June 2015 9:32 PM
>>
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: [SHOE] "the science of wealth (of nations)"
>>
>> I don’t know to what extent the 18th century would have understood
>> “wealth” in the sense of a particular private stock of riches but, to the
>> extent that it did so understand it, Smith’s title could have been read as
>> a pointed reference to the mercantilist ideas that the book is devoted to
>> rebutting (but recall that defence is more important than opulence: WN
>> IV.ii.30: 464-5).
>>
>>
>>
>> Julian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Societies for the History of Economics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Steve Kates
>> *Sent:* 18 June 2015 05:33
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: [SHOE] "the science of wealth (of nations)"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It has seemed to me for a while that the title, *The Wealth of Nations*,
>> is an eighteenth century use of words and is somewhat misleading as to the
>> point that Smith was making. I have tried to find a modern phrase that
>> would capture what he meant, and the closest I have been able to come to
>> is: *The Prosperity of Nations*. "Wealth" has a kind of treasure chest
>> notion to it (which it may not have had back then), and the word "wealthy"
>> is tied to personal riches, which is not at all, I think, what Smith was
>> trying to get at. So when I read that the French for "wealth" is
>> "richesse", or that my google translator turns "*The Wealth of Nations"*
>> into "*la richesse des nations*", I really do therefore wonder how much
>> has been lost in translation. Because when I translate the English word
>> "riches" into French, it gives me "richesse" once again. The alternative
>> French to English of "richesse" are "wealth", "richness", "riches", "rich"
>> and "affluent". And for the French word "*riche*" we get these English
>> translations: "rich", "wealthy", "affluent", "opulent", "splendid" and
>> "luxurious". Each of them seem totally inadequate to making sense of what
>> Smith had in mind or what the book is about. This seems to me more than
>> just a curiosity.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16 June 2015 at 17:58, Deniz T. Kilincoglu <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>> I'm trying to trace the source of translating "economics" as "the science
>> of wealth" (and sometimes "the science of the wealth of nations") in late
>> nineteenth-century Ottoman-Turkish.
>> Ottoman economists most probably rendered it from French ("la science de
>> la richesse"), from popular sources preceding the 1860s.
>> I could find expressions like "l'économie politique est la science de la
>> richesse" in many economic texts from the era, but I'm trying to understand
>> how common it was to use "la science de la richesse" instead of or
>> interchangeably with "l’économie politique" referring to the discipline
>> itself.
>> Many thanks in advance for your responses.
>> Best,
>> Deniz
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Deniz T. Kilincoglu, PhD
>>
>>
>>
>> Economics Program
>>
>> Middle East Technical University
>>
>> Northern Cyprus Campus, T-141
>>
>> Kalkanlı, Güzelyurt, KKTC
>>
>> via Mersin 10, Turkey
>>
>> Telephone: +90 392 661 3017
>>
>>
>>
>> Just published: *Economics and Capitalism in the Ottoman Empire
>> <http://www.routledge.com/books/details/9781138854062/>*, Routledge,
>> 2015.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Dr Steven Kates
>> Associate Professor
>>
>> School of Economics, Finance
>> and Marketing
>> RMIT University
>> Building 80
>>
>> Level 11 / 445 Swanston Street
>> Melbourne Vic 3000
>>
>> Phone: (03) 9925 5878
>> Mobile: 042 7297 529
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dr Steven Kates
> Associate Professor
> School of Economics, Finance
> and Marketing
> RMIT University
> Building 80
> Level 11 / 445 Swanston Street
> Melbourne Vic 3000
>
> Phone: (03) 9925 5878
> Mobile: 042 7297 529
>
|
